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H.266/VVC Standard Finalized With ~50% Lower Size Compared To H.265

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  • #61
    Originally posted by rickst29 View Post

    I disagree with this statement- but I have high quality source material (actual recording sessions of acoustic instruments, singers, and genuine percussion instruments). When I downgrade my 24-bit/96000 recordings into something else for distribution, the differences between AAC @ 384kb and MP3 @ 384kb is obvious. But MP3 presents another quality problem: AFAIK, only LAME can encode at more than 320Kb, and many consumer devices can't handle higher nonstandard bit-rates. I always store my originals as FLAC. For compressed audio at lower bit rates, I prefer OPUS > AAC > AC3 > MP3, although I don't use OPUS very often. (I only encode to Opus when creating VP9 Videos).

    If the comparison is made by starting with a highly compressed and typically mis-engineered pop music CD - then yeah, 320Kb MP3 will be nearly as "good" as the original.
    Well, yeah, master copies are still with us for a reason. Most of us won't hear the differences you speak about though.
    I've had this conversation with a guy who recently spent like 2k on audio equipment (obviously not high-end, but better than what 90% of others have) and he laughed at my face when I told him he wouldn't be able to spot the MP3. But then he went on to actually try to spot the MP3 and came back telling me I was right.
    Obviously, higher-end equipment makes the most minute differences apparent, but how relevant is that in this day and age when people turn to their phones for music consumption? Sure, it's more than relevant for producing music, but never in its wildest dreams has MP3 gone into a studio

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    • #62
      Originally posted by MadeUpName View Post
      I got wondering about how the implemntaion of AV1 is going and came across this Youtube page.

      https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...eZUlNUQAVLwrZS

      What caught my attention other than the videos was this line.

      "Using a supported browser and choosing the 'Prefer AV1 for SD' setting on youtube.com/testtube, you should see AV1 used for these videos when playing less than 480p, switching to VP9 for higher resolutions."

      Can any one think of why they would use AV1 for low res and VP9 for high res? Is that due to some limitation in AV1 or just a lack of hardware decoders? Can any one speak to how AV1 implementation is doing in Mac land?
      If you're using a laptop with horrible thermal design this would be an obvious choice.
      AV1 on 1080p/4K w/o hw dec will turn the computer on your laptop into a hot iron in a few minutes.

      Update: things would be better if your laptop has decent thermal design -- you get a hair-dryer instead, which is more useful in modern days
      Last edited by zxy_thf; 07-06-2020, 07:56 PM.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by jonsmirl View Post
        It is just going to be another patent royalty train wreck like h.265. There is just something fundamentally wrong with being able to spend $20M on a patent fortress, insert that fortress into a standard, then sit back and collect a $1B in royalties. Qualcomm is another good example of this. Why use a free technology when you can put a similar, patented one into the standard! I have no problem paying reasonable returns on R&D, 1000 to 1 is not a reasonable return.
        Anybody can call anything a "standard". It doesn't mean that the standard has any viable support outside the inventor's own bubble.

        Here the term simply means that they have a strict specification for the encoded streams that other implementations must abide to.
        Last edited by curfew; 07-06-2020, 08:25 PM.

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        • #64
          be interested to know the comparison of encode/decode times.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by rickst29 View Post
            When I downgrade my 24-bit/96000 recordings into something else for distribution, the differences between AAC @ 384kb and MP3 @ 384kb is obvious.
            Could you describe what the differences sound like? Is there a perceptible signature for each codec (at higher bitrates), so you can tell them apart?

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            • #66
              Originally posted by uid313 View Post
              ~50% lower size means ~50% more power to decode it, and ~150% more power to encode it?
              0.5x the size means 2x the complexity. We're getting diminishing returns though:
              bitrate complexity
              h.263 1 1
              h.264 0.5 2
              h.265 0.25 4
              h.266 0.125 8
              The relative difference of bitrate continues to decrease while the relative complexity is skyrocketing.

              It also makes it hard to do low-latency video when the complexity is so high

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              • #67
                Originally posted by darkbasic View Post
                Honestly, does it even matter anymore?
                it doesn't. no content provider will be using it.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by anarki2 View Post
                  Your Netflix stream is also compressed in H.265, for that matter.
                  no, it's compressed in av1. netflix is a founding member of alliance for open media and it doesn't give a fuck about fraunhofer or h.266

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by bug77 View Post
                    MP3 was brilliant when released. Even today it's still hard to beat.
                    in some alternative universe without opus

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by anarki2 View Post
                      That is, only about 90% of all the use cases, yes.
                      and all those 90% (and everyone else really) of usecases are using av1

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