Originally posted by Marsu42
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Netflix Now Exploring AVIF For Image Compression
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Originally posted by Marsu42 View PostThere's already progsive jpeg - how widely is this used, and what does that say about real world damand?
Originally posted by Marsu42 View PostSomehow, I doubt that this is what your _typical_ website does.
Originally posted by Marsu42 View PostAs for Browser compatibilty - this certainly was a huge concern back in the day, when Internet Explorer took years to be phased out. But today, there are fewer browser engines, rolling releases, and general planned obsolescence - so a new format like isn't blocked by lack up browser updates for long.
Originally posted by Marsu42 View PostFeel free to compare these space savings with the space and bandwith used for videos.
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Originally posted by Toggleton View Post
AFAIK is HEIF more like the container and AVIF is AV1 as a single image, like a AV1 video can be used in mkv/webm or mp4 container
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Isn't HEIF container patent encumbered? It was developed by MPEG. So this development doesn't sound good to me. There should be free containers for that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_E...ge_File_FormatLast edited by shmerl; 16 February 2020, 02:01 AM.
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Originally posted by shmerl View PostIsn't HEIF container patent encumbered? It was developed by MPEG. So this development doesn't sound good to me. There should be free containers for that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_E...ge_File_Format
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Originally posted by skierpage View PostFrom that Wikpedia article: "HEIF itself is a container, and when containing images and image sequences encoded in a particular format (e.g., HEVC or H.264/AVC) its use becomes subject to the licensing of patents on the coding format". The implication is the container format itself isn't patented.
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Originally posted by shmerl View PostI don't think that's correct though. Knowing MPEG, they slap patents on everything, including containers. So why even bother using theirs?
It's not MPEG that slaps patents everywhere. Generally MPEG is just a engineering group, under which everybody is free to participate. The problem are the ISO rules under which they operate, prohibits them to dismiss something on any other than technological ground, so they can't dismiss something because it is patented and take something else. So a lot of companies send engineers to promote their patented technologies to the MPEG workshops, and the result is a standard which is heavily patented from a big bunch of companies.
MPEG-LA is then a separate thing - just a patent pool, which has no connection to MPEG except from the name and that the purpose is to pool patents from MPEG standards, but they aren't the only one.
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Originally posted by quikee View PostIt's not MPEG that slaps patents everywhere. Generally MPEG is just a engineering group, under which everybody is free to participate. The problem are the ISO rules under which they operate, prohibits them to dismiss something on any other than technological ground, so they can't dismiss something because it is patented and take something else. So a lot of companies send engineers to promote their patented technologies to the MPEG workshops, and the result is a standard which is heavily patented from a big bunch of companies.
MPEG-LA is then a separate thing - just a patent pool, which has no connection to MPEG except from the name and that the purpose is to pool patents from MPEG standards, but they aren't the only one.
Yeah, I know the difference. I'm not talking about MPEG-LA trolls, but about MPEG itself. They aren't simply accidentally pro-patenting. It's their core approach. One of their reps even complained, how he doesn't like the whole AOM development and movement to make video codecs royalty free.
Anyway, if HEIF is indeed free to use now, then great, but again, why even bother with MPEG formats which are always a suspect, let them take something from WebM like WebP did and etc.Last edited by shmerl; 16 February 2020, 03:38 PM.
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Originally posted by shmerl View PostYeah, I know the difference. I'm not talking about MPEG-LA trolls, but about MPEG itself. They aren't simply accidentally pro-patenting. It's their core approach. One of their reps even complained, how he doesn't like the whole AOM development and movement to make video codecs royalty free.
If AOM succeeds it will show to everyone that MPEG isn't even necessary, that's why they are opposed to everything AOM stands for. Still MPEG saw that HEVC patent situation is something that can't happen again, so they are trying some different approaches regarding patents for VVC (forming an independent group of companies discussing patents before standard is finalized).
Originally posted by shmerl View PostAnyway, if HEIF is indeed free to use now, then great, but again, why even bother with MPEG formats which are always a suspect, let them take something from WebM like WebP did and etc.
Regarding WebM and WebP - WebM is based on Matroska, but WebP is a simple RIFF container, so they can't just take what WebP has. Would be interesting if they extended Matroska, but I don't think it's too bad that they took HEIF. Generally I must say AV1 developers seem to me to have quite low interest in AVIF.
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