The X.Org, Mesa Plans For Ubuntu 10.10

[sabriah]

"Is it just me who think that the X.Org shouldn't focus on a particular distro. This sounds as if Ubuntu is getting X.org to follow Ubuntu's pipe."

No, you seem to be on crack. In terms of giving focus to distros, I'm pretty sure X.org has Ubuntu at the back of the bus. There wasn't a single X.org person at UDS this year.

No Bryce, I wan't on crack, or anything else. I am just paranoid that Canonical would take even more away from their upstream main source, Debian (www.debian.org), apart from the limelight (http://www.google.com/trends?q=debian%2C+ubuntu).

While the core Debian folks might be a bit orthodox about things, I hope that Canonical can remain ever so tolerant about that. No, I am not a core Debian guy, but I wish to remain an end Debian user for as long as there is an active development, and, I would definitely object to someone pushing a separate agenda on top over Debian's well being.

My post was an overreaction, and I admit and apologize for that. Sorry.

[Bryce Harrington]

"Is it just me who think that the X.Org shouldn't focus on a particular distro. This sounds as if Ubuntu is getting X.org to follow Ubuntu's pipe."

No, you seem to be on crack. In terms of giving focus to distros, I'm pretty sure X.org has Ubuntu at the back of the bus. There wasn't a single X.org person at UDS this year.

[gomyhr]

Huh? What's wrong with i8xx under KMS?

Nothing as far as I know. KMS was disabled last minute in Lucid in a hope to work around the cache coherency bugs on these chipsets, but as far as I can see from the bug reports it caused more trouble than it fixed. Many people now boot to a black screen. At least that prevents them from getting as far as experiencing the GPU hangs.

[BigFatGangsta]

Yup

EDIT: I realize there may be a simple explanation... Is it about Ubuntu's plans to deploy X.org?!

Yup, In this case, the simple explanation is the right one..

[sabriah]

"X.Org plans for Ubuntu"

Hmmmm... Is this just me?

Why would X.Org plan for Ubuntu, and not Debian, Mint, Fedora, OpenSuse, or any other of the distros?!

What does Ubuntu have that the others don't?

According to Mark Shuttleworth Ubuntu is a relabelling of Debian with some changes:

From September 9th, 2006 http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/56:



but on March 15th, 2010 http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/290




Is is just me who think that the X.Org shouldn't focus on a particular distro. And if they do, why not focus on the one that "Ubuntu could not exist without", and let Canonical cherry pick from Debian Squeeze/Sid/Testing/Whatever/whatever like all others.

This sounds as if Ubuntu is getting X.org to follow Ubuntu's pipe, rather than X.org having an agenda on their own or in collaboration with equals. Maybe this is natural, and maybe this is good, I cannot tell yet. But it sounds strange. The kernel is in such a massive development with so many companies involved I don't think it is an issue there. But if the release plans of X.org follows Ubuntu it sure won't end well.


.

EDIT: I realize there may be a simple explanation... Is it about Ubuntu's plans to deploy X.org?!

[sabriah]

"X.Org plans for Ubuntu"?!

"X.Org plans for Ubuntu"

Hmmmm... Is this just me?

Why would X.Org plan for Ubuntu, and not Debian, Mint, Fedora, OpenSuse, or any other of the distros?!

What does Ubuntu have that the others don't?

According to Mark Shuttleworth Ubuntu is a relabelling of Debian with some changes:

From September 9th, 2006 http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/56:

I?m of the opinion that Ubuntu could not exist without Debian. So it?s absolutely my intention to see that Ubuntu is a constructive part of the broader Debian landscape. It?s vital that Ubuntu help to sustain and grow Debian, because it?s the breadth and strength of Debian which make up the ?shoulders of greatness? on which we in the Ubuntu community stand when we reach for the stars.

but on March 15th, 2010 http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/290

What are the criteria for choosing a common base version?

In both the Ubuntu and Debian cases, we?ll be making a release that we support for many years. So be looked for versions of key upstreams that will pass the test of time. Sometimes, that means they can?t be too old, because they?ll be completely obsolete or unmaintainable in the life of the release. And sometimes that means they can?t be too young. In general, it would be better to be reviewing code that is already out there. But there are also lots of upstreams that do a credible job of release management, so we could commit to shipping a version that is not yet released, based on the reputation of the community it?s coming from.

What if there?s no agreement on a particular kernel, or X or component-foo?

We will almost certainly diverge on some components, and that?s quite OK. This is about finding opportunities to do a better job for upstreams and for users, not about forcing any distro to make a particular choice. If anyone feels its more important to them to use a particular version than another, they?ll do that.

Is is just me who think that the X.Org shouldn't focus on a particular distro. And if they do, why not focus on the one that "Ubuntu could not exist without", and let Canonical cherry pick from Debian Squeeze/Sid/Testing/Whatever/whatever like all others.

This sounds as if Ubuntu is getting X.org to follow Ubuntu's pipe, rather than X.org having an agenda on their own or in collaboration with equals. Maybe this is natural, and maybe this is good, I cannot tell yet. But it sounds strange. The kernel is in such a massive development with so many companies involved I don't think it is an issue there. But if the release plans of X.org follows Ubuntu it sure won't end well.


.

[pingufunkybeat]

Bah, no edit.

What's I'm trying to say is that the r600g will be much faster than the current r600 /eventually/ but it won't be automatic or immediate. It's just that the current r600 driver is not very optimised for very good reasons.

[pingufunkybeat]

Actually, i think there is. The new design is based around the way modern hardware works, and emphasizes the use of shaders, while the classic drivers have a bunch of cruft and rely more on fixed function hardware that is becoming useless on newer hardware.

You're right in principle, but the r600 Mesa driver was written very recently, mostly from scratch, with the complete documentation available.

That's why I don't think that it's a major issue with the r600 driver.

Once r600g driver is stable, the optimisations will likely lead to much better improvement, but it won't be automatically faster just because it is running on Gallium.

[KDesk]

The Intel DDX driver update means that they will be saying farewell to any user-space mode-setting support from this driver so those with ancient Intel i8xx hardware will be dropped down to using the VESA driver in poorly supported configurations...

Where did you hear that? I have and i865G with the DDX intel 2.11, KMS, OpenGL, XVideo, etc. works with no problems.

The problem is that right now for some i8xx hardware KMS doesn't work very well, users have to use UMS (which was removed in DDX version 2.10) or disable DRI.

[smitty3268]

There is nothing magic about the Gallium3d infrastructure that makes drivers automatically faster.

Actually, i think there is. The new design is based around the way modern hardware works, and emphasizes the use of shaders, while the classic drivers have a bunch of cruft and rely more on fixed function hardware that is becoming useless on newer hardware.

A poorly optimized gallium driver can still be much slower, of course, but once it gets some serious optimization work done on it there is every reason to believe it should outperform the classic drivers.