X.Org's XDC2019 Issues Call For Proposals On Wayland, Mesa, X.Org, Etc

[Britoid]

Most people care about the number of applications only and when a game runs slower and unstable with Xwayland, only a few people are interested to use and develop wayland.

Sometimes I wonder whether you're just a version of poe's law that's gone on for far too long.

Most people don't use Linux.

[beniwtv]

Not with the Xfce desktop
Works even for DX11 games with dxvk.

I've used XFCE for quite some time now - when using it with VR when direct rendering wasn't a thing
And it has the exact same problems.

Not distributing desktop tearing when the compositor is disabled and no tearing when running full screen games. A totally tearfree desktop when the compositor is enabled.

Suuure....

Wayland is bloatware when not used.

Can't argue with that one.

Get locks to your doors and take care of your laptop.

What about corporate environments where we lock computers instead of shutting them down when going for a coffee?

And you trust IBM software only;-) Smart people use software from safe repositories and clamtk.
Only idiots do so.

Sure, because repositories never have been hacked, ever, right?
And clamtk can identify all malwares and viruses, no problem.

NOT.

Xwayland causes bugs and performance drops, very clever.

It did cause bugs, yes. They got fixed. I don't have a single game I tried in the last 6 months that would have a problem with XWayland now. And performance is the same, doesn't have much to do with X or Wayland, but the GPU drivers.

Hope is what you need with wayland. Many problems have been years and not solved. Only a few people use wayland implementations and developers are passive.
There are very few native wayland applications and applications are what make the change, see the success of android. The reality will hit to wayland developers soon and xorg will drop wayland from the Linux desktop.

You do realize the Wayland developers are the X developers, right?

[aufkrawall]

Adding to what tilde said, on X vsync is more of a hack/workaround. The compositor has to actively fetch all the buffers from X. on Wayland, clients talk directly to the compositor, which also helps in that native-wayland games will have less input lag than X org games.

It's not true that Xorg has general input lag issues. Actually it has lower input lag than current Wayland compositors, as they don't support turning off compositor vsync. And I suppose it will never be the case (because Wayland is not intended to allow tearing), so we must wait for proper FreeSync support.

[Britoid]

It's not true that Xorg has general input lag issues. Actually it has lower input lag than current Wayland compositors, as they don't support turning off compositor vsync. And I suppose it will never be the case (because Wayland is not intended to allow tearing), so we must wait for proper FreeSync support.

Alternatively a way of letting games output directly to the frame buffer (e.g. how Windows does it) might be a better idea rather than introducing hacks into the compositor.

[oiaohm]

It's not true that Xorg has general input lag issues. Actually it has lower input lag than current Wayland compositors, as they don't support turning off compositor vsync. And I suppose it will never be the case (because Wayland is not intended to allow tearing), so we must wait for proper FreeSync support.

This is horrible wrong.

https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/mutter/issues/334

Turns out sending up buffers without vsync to X11 results in an output lag stall. Yes if you measure output lag turning vsync off without question makes this worse.

Wayland has really low output lag because you have not having gpu stalls and worse crashes caused by gpu attempting to process incomplete buffers.

So you are after to fix inputlag without completely screwing up output lag. Proper FreeSync support basically make no difference to this problem.

[Slithery]

What are these, not found in Steam. Some simple commodore vic-20 style games probably. Do you play them a lot;-)

I do.
A large portion of my gaming is playing emulated games, and SDL is fully Wayland-compatible.

There are very few native wayland applications

You spout this nonsense every time. There are literally thousands and thousands of applications that run natively with Wayland.

How about you put together a little one-liner that lists all of the installed packages on your system that provide a /usr/share/applications/*.desktop file that depend on either gtk3, qt5, sdl2, clutter, EFL, GLFW or GLEW. These will all be Wayland native applications.

I would do it myself but haven't used apt for >10 years now so am unsure on the current syntax.

[sa666666]

Guys, will you just stop replying to this assclown. It's obvious he's trolling and getting his rocks off from your responses, since nobody can be that intentionally obtuse. If we all ignore him, he will eventually get tired of it. Although getting user blocklists working is the best solution, for now we should just ignore his drivel. Don't waste your time trying to argue with logic; he'll just come back with an even more brain-damaged response that has nothing to do with what you said.

[aufkrawall]

This is horrible wrong.

No, you are wrong. There is no input lag when dragging windows without compositor (windows stick to hardware cursor) and with compositor, it's as low as it can be with vsync (if the compositor works correctly). Unredirecting fullscreen windows also is not a hack, it's common sense.

I play shooters on both Windows and Linux, they run as directly as possible with Xorg. If that's not the case for you, it's entirely your very own fault.

[oiaohm]

I play shooters on both Windows and Linux, they run as directly as possible with Xorg. If that's not the case for you, it's entirely your very own fault.

No there are benchmark measurements of output lag between wayland and X11. Please note not play with input lag. Replay with recorded input you can in fact detect a higher output lag on X11. Wayland has the lower output lag without bi-passing.

Directly as possible on x.org is in fact slower for output side of the render then directly on wayland. The input issue is a different problem not linked to vsync. If input issue linked to vsync there is a threading problem in the compositor. Obeying vsync is important not to stall out GPU.

Basically dragging windows without a compositor fixes anything is because it getting rid of a compositor with a threading issue.

.

Unredirecting fullscreen windows also is not a hack, it's common sense.

This would be DRM lease this is option under wayland and x11 this is faster than both because this is giving application direct hardware access completely bypassing X11 server or wayland compositor.

[oiaohm]

Yes and the wayland free reality will hit their face as a surprise very soon.

http://wiki.c2.com/?XwindowProtocolShouldBeStabbedAndBurnt

X11 hit them with a stack of unfix-able problems without breaking the protocol. Sooner or latter you will have to wake up that X.org server is repeating hitting you in the face.