XWayland 21.1 Release Candidate Offers Split From The X.Org Server

[oiaohm]

This doesn't happen on classic Linux desktops because the libraries are shared. Not sure about those pesky flatpaks and snapchats and whatevers, though.

Sorry to say it does happen on classic Linux desktops with those installing commercial programs going into /opt or /usr/local because those libraries were not 100 percent sure to match up.

Bundling of applications with libraries different to distribution host predate flatpak and snap stuff.

Also miss match of theme to installed libraries. Remember people would get like a theme from what was Gnome-look and so on and add it to there system. So theme user puts in their home directory may not be compatible with installed libraries. Now this problem could get as systemd-homed gets used more. Put home directory on USB key and move it between multi different distributions with multi different libraries..... Theme compatibility issues are going to come bigger problem.

[oiaohm]

On Linux, the backend in use is called wxGTK.

That is not in fact 100 percent true all the time. https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/wxqt-dev/

Wxwindows on different Linux distributions may not always be wxGTK.

https://docs.wxwidgets.org/3.0/page_port.html

Would pay to read wxX11 particularly fun there are 4 possible different backend outcomes when you use wxwindows and installing applications on different Linux installs that could be there. 3 possible backend outcomes are themeable with different theme formats. Yes wxX11 is not theme-able by a system theme.

So you are making a wx application to run random Linux distributions welcome to having to test 3 times for theming caused issues due to 3 different back ends with 3 different theming solutions. With out the version breaks as well.

Proper universal theming solution could make life a lot better.

[Shiba]

I don't see why the hell that should be a problem.

Than I'm talking with a stupid. End of conversation, bye.

[ssokolow]

Having to code your own theming engine is not really useful if your objective is unified theming across the complete desktop. So you have to code a theme for Qt then for GTK then for Wxwidgets..... Then deal with the breakages caused by updates. End up with the nightmares where you have new and old applications using different versions of the toolkit that need different versions of the theme file.

Your ignorance is showing. wxWidgets is a thin wrapper around the platform-native toolkit with a few extra synthetic widgets to fill in the gaps on whatever platform you're on. That's why the APIs are so ugly.

(Source: I've coded for wxWidgets, GTK+ 2.x, GTK 3.x, Qt 4, and Qt 5... though mainly the Python bindings. I can, however, attest that the Python bindings to wxWidgets are about as faithful to the underlying C++ API as the Qt bindings are, and both wxWidgets and wxPython have an ugly Win32-esque quality to their APIs... mainly the need to pass around raw numeric IDs.)

On Linux, the backend in use is called wxGTK.

https://stopthemingmy.app/

This from gnome developers where really powerful theme systems result in applications being not able to be used by end users also applies to Qt theming.

Lot of ways we need some form of really simple theme solution that application and end users can use without risking ruining their day. This would also require some smarts on mandated contrast differences between different elements.

Horrible as it sounds there is such thing as over kill. Most toolkits on Linux the theming system is over kill. Most users will only want to adjust a few colours to suit their vision better and be wanting consistency in appearance.

I'll stop theming their apps when they stop designing them for idiotic amounts of padding and using icons that grate on the focus issues granted to me by the mix of ADD and Asperger's syndrome I was diagnosed with.

(Seriously. Back in the GTK+ 2.x days, my theme of choice was a hacked theme called "Clearlooks-Compact" and I did and still do run a customized icon theme which does stuff like overriding the panel icons for applications.)

IMHO, system-wide theming is one of the XDG desktop ecosystem's greatest strengths and, if an application is insufficiently themable, I look for a replacement. (Yes, I also do things like using Userstyles to re-theme web apps I'm forced to use.)

[ssokolow]

Now you're shifting goal posts from your own arguments, haha. Password dialogs have nothing to do with window borders, which was your original argument.

Stop being a re-tard, stop executing untrusted apps!

Not at all. The point is and always has been to have a part of the window which the application does not control, whether it's for trusted controls, trusted information/identification, or both.

As for "untrusted apps", there's no such thing as "trusted enough", there are just degrees of risk. That's why you stack laters of defense in depth. Otherwise, we'd still all be on MS-DOS, with no memory protection and no privilege isolation.

[curfew]

Curfew is that straight forwards to make your own theme engine? No its not. Classic widgets with new versions of Qt things do change resulting in old Qt themes not working with new versions of Qt.

Well, I didn't mean that it would be easy nor quick, but the process in itself is very clear. There is no ambiguity and the APIs are very stable.

Having to code your own theming engine is not really useful if your objective is unified theming across the complete desktop. So you have to code a theme for Qt then for GTK then for Wxwidgets..... Then deal with the breakages caused by updates.

Now I think you're getting lost. All toolkits have their own, unique theme engines. It doesn't matter if you're writing yet another or not. If your target is to achieve uniform theming across toolkits, then you should definitely write theme engines that make it possible.

End up with the nightmares where you have new and old applications using different versions of the toolkit that need different versions of the theme file.

This doesn't happen on classic Linux desktops because the libraries are shared. Not sure about those pesky flatpaks and snapchats and whatevers, though.

I have done the horrible job of trying to get unified appearing on Linux desktop is really not fun.

So?

https://stopthemingmy.app/

This from gnome developers where really powerful theme systems result in applications being not able to be used by end users also applies to Qt theming.

That's some incoherent rambling, to be honest. Of course users must be allowed to theme their desktop and of course you're an idiot if you try to block that. The technical details on how theming is applied might be subject to discussion.

Personally I wouldn't mind being able to apply a custom stylesheet on a per-app basis, but still retaining the option of applying a global stylesheet as well. This is of course not a problem for the "GNOME community" nor end-users but actually something for the GTK devs to implement. So these pathetic people are barking at the wrong tree.

Blocking theming will of course also block attempts at unifying the look-and-feel of different toolkits, so I think you are trying to now make an argument both for and against the unification.

[oiaohm]

In what sense? Regarding Qt it's actually very straightforward: themes are implemented by programming; basically you have to roll your own complete "theme engine" in order to create a new theme. That's for the classic widgets. QML-based widgets have their own theming logic separate from classic widgets.

Curfew is that straight forwards to make your own theme engine? No its not. Classic widgets with new versions of Qt things do change resulting in old Qt themes not working with new versions of Qt.

Having to code your own theming engine is not really useful if your objective is unified theming across the complete desktop. So you have to code a theme for Qt then for GTK then for Wxwidgets..... Then deal with the breakages caused by updates. End up with the nightmares where you have new and old applications using different versions of the toolkit that need different versions of the theme file.

I have done the horrible job of trying to get unified appearing on Linux desktop is really not fun.

https://stopthemingmy.app/

This from gnome developers where really powerful theme systems result in applications being not able to be used by end users also applies to Qt theming.

Lot of ways we need some form of really simple theme solution that application and end users can use without risking ruining their day. This would also require some smarts on mandated contrast differences between different elements.

Horrible as it sounds there is such thing as over kill. Most toolkits on Linux the theming system is over kill. Most users will only want to adjust a few colours to suit their vision better and be wanting consistency in appearance.

[curfew]

A Wayland app can pretend to have a privileged dialog box like a password entry box hovering over it if it is able to fake the system windeco, or hijack the function of windeco, such as producing a close or minimize button that appears to do so but actually uses shaped window calls to give the impression that there was a smaller, more privileged window hiding behind it.

Now you're shifting goal posts from your own arguments, haha. Password dialogs have nothing to do with window borders, which was your original argument.

Stop being a re-tard, stop executing untrusted apps!

[curfew]

Its not just gnome. Please take note that QT/KDE theming format is also not set in stone. Same with all the other toolkits.

Its a very broad mess.

In what sense? Regarding Qt it's actually very straightforward: themes are implemented by programming; basically you have to roll your own complete "theme engine" in order to create a new theme. That's for the classic widgets. QML-based widgets have their own theming logic separate from classic widgets.

[oiaohm]

Not in a Plasma X11 session. Theming is a disaster because -GNOME- keeps breaking it.

Its not just gnome. Please take note that QT/KDE theming format is also not set in stone. Same with all the other toolkits.

Its a very broad mess.