AlmaLinux, CentOS Stream, Clear Linux, Debian, Fedora & Ubuntu On AMD 4th Gen EPYC Genoa

[NotMine999]

Unfortunately Clear Linux is not really usable as a regular desktop OS for the average user. I do think we need at least one distro that is performance oriented, but at the same time adequate as a desktop OS. AFAIK, this is what Serpent OS will try to do.

I think Clear Linux is included to show all of us how good Linux COULD BE if careful attention is paid to the kernel compiling options.

Said another way...Linux really is a good OS yet it can be dragged down by conservative kernel compile options (to maintain a broader range of platform compatibility) and-or use of older Linux code.

[NM64]

This is only tangentially related, but one thing I've been wondering about and can't find anything at all is if Epyc "Genoa" contains Pluton - there is literally no mention anywhere on the internet that I can find that Pluton is present inside of Epyc "Genoa" despite being in all consumer Ryzen 6000 and 7000 processors to date.

On the products with Pluton, it's touted as essentially being a security co-processor and yet, for being the market segment that prioritizes security the most (Epyc), there's literally nothing at all anywhere about Epyc having Pluton, almost as if it's not even present on the chip.

I can't help but find that to start giving credence that Pluton isn't exactly all it's marketed as...

[onlyLinuxLuvUBack]

This is only tangentially related, but one thing I've been wondering about and can't find anything at all is Pluton - there is literally no mention anywhere on the internet that I can find that Epyc "Genoa" contains Pluton.

On the products with Pluton, it's touted as being essentially a security co-processor and yet, for the market segment that prioritizes security the most (Epyc), there's literally nothing at all about Pluton anywhere, almost as if it's not even present on the chip.

I can't help but find that to start giving credence that Pluton isn't exactly all it's marketed as...

What is the Microsoft Pluton Processor and how does it work?

Pluton is the new chip-to-cloud security processor developed by Microsoft. This is in collaboration with the leading chipmakers AMD, Intel, and Qualcomm. The new security processor pioneered in Xbox and Azure Sphere, will now bring even more enhanced security to future Windows PCs.
Pluton is built right into the CPU, removing the need for outside communication between the trusted platform module and the CPU. Microsoft says this helps prevent attacks and theft of credential and encryption keys even if the attackers have physical possession of the device.
Benefits of the Microsoft Pluton Processor

• Physical attack prevention
  Attackers will not be able to extract sensitive data such as encryption keys, user biometric data, and account credentials even if they have malware installed or physical possession to PCs with Pluton. Secure Hardware Cryptography Key (SHACK) technology is also used to isolate keys thus adding an additional layer of security.
• Security updates from the cloud
  Pluton is integrated with Windows Updates. Microsoft can directly deliver updates to users without having to rely on its OEM partners.

Microsoft Pluton vs TPM: How do they differ?

Trusted Platform Module or TPM is a separate hardware component used to securely store sensitive information on Windows PCs while Pluton is built directly into the CPU. Pluton and its TPM-like functionality make it harder for attackers to extract sensitive data. Pluton works with existing TPM specifications and APIs. This allows users to benefit from TPM-powered features such as BitLocker and System Guard.
When will devices with this chip launch?

Microsoft announced at CES 2022 that Lenovo and AMD would launch the first Pluton-powered PCs. All Ryzen 6000 series processors will feature the Pluton chip. AMD says that there will be more than 200 laptops packing Ryzen 6000 processors in 2022 from major computer manufacturers like Razer, Dell, and HP. Qualcomm was first to announce the use of Pluton in its Snapdragon 8cx Gen 3 chips however AMD’s new laptop processors will be the earliest to arrive in the market.

[NM64]

EDIT: It would seem that the above post that I was quoting has been majorly edited, yet its edits are regarding a seemingly misunderstood intent of my previous post. Therefore I've also edited my previous post to clarify that I was referring to a lack of info regarding if Pluton is in Epyc, not info on Pluton as a whole.

maybe it is the "AMD secure processor" mentioned ?

Supposedly that's just what was previously called the PSP (platform security processor) and, on desktop and mobile, that is very much where Pluton resides. Therefore if Pluton is present, then it would make sense to be within that portion of the die.

...but all previous generations of Epyc going back to even Zen1 have an "AMD secure processor", so the presence of that doesn't really tell us anything:

Zen1 Epyc Naples: https://www.anandtech.com/show/11551...pyc-analysis/3

Zen2 Epyc Rome (do a ctrl+f for "amd secure processor" without quotes): https://www.itpro.com/server-storage...2-server-chips

Zen3 Epyc Milan: https://www.servethehome.com/amd-epy...ure-processor/

[jochendemuth]

Michael Thanks for including RDBMS tests. The chosen postgresql test scenario seems to be insuffient to fully stress the dual EPYCs with just 250 clients across 384 cores. When I went to investigate the matter I found more ways to improve the pts/postgresql test.

[ms178]

Unfortunately Clear Linux is not really usable as a regular desktop OS for the average user. I do think we need at least one distro that is performance oriented, but at the same time adequate as a desktop OS. AFAIK, this is what Serpent OS will try to do.

I agree, Clear Linux is not a desktop OS and I also have my eyes on what Ikey will provide to us soon. In the meantime, please have a look on CachyOS that was recently reviewed here on Phoronix which ships with a lot of Clear Linux patches, x86-64-v3-repos with CPU-autodetection (if your CPU supports AVX2, that is a no-brainer for more performance, they'll soon even offer AVX-512-repos) and many other big and small performance optimizations, e.g. Kernel patches. You get the benefit of the Arch ecosystem which makes it as useful for desktop usage as any other Arch-derivative and as performant as Clear Linux in games and where it counts. I found that combination quite compelling as a daily driver which is easy to customize and a great base for further tweaks. As I use it myself for some time now, I can recommend it over any of the more established but slower distros. I even maintain my own repo for even more performance-enabling tweaks nowadays, Arch makes it unbelievably tempting to compile packages from source (which comes at huge burden of maintainability and risks involved, I know - but I like the performance gains from LTO+PGO of the graphics stack).

[onlyLinuxLuvUBack]

EDIT: It would seem that the above post that I was quoting has been majorly edited, yet its edits are regarding a seemingly misunderstood intent of my previous post. Therefore I've also edited my previous post to clarify that I was referring to a lack of info regarding if Pluton is in Epyc, not info on Pluton as a whole.



Supposedly that's just what was previously called the PSP (platform security processor) and, on desktop and mobile, that is very much where Pluton resides. Therefore if Pluton is present, then it would make sense to be within that portion of the die.

...but all previous generations of Epyc going back to even Zen1 have an "AMD secure processor", so the presence of that doesn't really tell us anything:

Zen1 Epyc Naples: https://www.anandtech.com/show/11551...pyc-analysis/3

Zen2 Epyc Rome (do a ctrl+f for "amd secure processor" without quotes): https://www.itpro.com/server-storage...2-server-chips

Zen3 Epyc Milan: https://www.servethehome.com/amd-epy...ure-processor/

on image2 in the block diagram... it shows the pluton....
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/am...for-alder-lake

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/09/everything-you-need-to-know-about-zen-4-socket-am5-and-amds-newest-chipsets/

on the io die image for zen4 it has a vague box labelled security.


I think you could expect the pluton slipped in all cpus going forward since all the hand shaking and the brown paper bags of cash exchange have been completed.

[NM64]

on image2 in the block diagram... it shows the pluton....
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/am...for-alder-lake

That's monolithic Zen3+ Ryzen 6000 from last year, not chiplet Zen4 Epyc.

This is key because, on chiplet Zen4 Ryzen 7000, Pluton is integrated into the I/O dies, but Epyc uses a different I/O die than consumer Ryzen does.

I think you could expect the pluton slipped in all cpus going forward since all the hand shaking and the brown paper bags of cash exchange have been completed.

Saying all CPUs is a bit silly when it would just be a waste of die space for any custom silicon used for the likes of a future Steam Deck.

[Kjell]

As I was one of these people, that's really easy to answer: These are server benchmarks in this review which favor throughput over latency most of the time. Go watch desktop gamging centric reviews and you'll find Fedora at the bottomn of the chart where latency is more important.

By the way, Clear Linux still offers meaningful performance advantages over the rest, so all of the more established players do something wrong here.

Do you have a source for the latency benchmarks? I'm trying to find the distro with lowest desktop latency for gaming

[ms178]

Do you have a source for the latency benchmarks? I'm trying to find the distro with lowest desktop latency for gaming

It seems you are looking for a review with a lot of bar charts, right? I only know a couple of reviews of CachyOS but not something very recent (and as Linux progresses fast in general, these might not be reflecting the current state any longer). Also, I'd argue that trying the distro yourself would be more telling than any review anyway as looking at bar charts don't tell you the whole story (even the 1% and 0.1% lows). I've seen butter smooth gameplay with lower fps numbers and stuttery behavior with high fps. For gaming you'd favor the butter smooth behavior even if the fps are a tad lower.

I compile some packages myself and manage my own repo with customized PKGBUILDs to get the absolute best experience but the CachyOS defaults are already much better than what most other established distros ship with. If I had to guess, their Kernel tweaks, the x86-64-v3 packages and the use of ananicy-cpp with decent rules are important factors to get to that better experience.