Intel Announces 13th Gen "Raptor Lake" - Linux Benchmarks To Come

[coder]

I'm not running into any throttling issues, I see all the cores pegged at 4.7Ghz at stock and 5.2Ghz with my OC with AVX-512 on Alder Lake

Well, then Igor's data is all the more perplexing, because that's the best explanation I had for why AVX-512 wasn't delivering better performance.

and I also noticed AVX-512 uses less power than AVX2 on Alder Lake.

Right. That's what he found, and it makes very little sense.

[coder]

You're trolling right? Every review I've seen that uses all the cores shows a 7950X using 240w+ in real world workloads. If you're only using your PC to game/office task then you're buying the wrong chip. What did you think was going to happen when you crank up frequency?

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/a...-7950x/24.html

As already mentioned many times, 7950X delivers very strong performance at lower power thresholds. It remains a perfectly viable & competitive solution in such configurations. Whether the same can be said of Raptor Lake remains to be seen, but I wouldn't count on it.

Also, I'd like to see their raw measurement data. Specifically, how much of the time did the benchmarks which ran > 200 W stay at such elevated levels?

[scottishduck]

o please let scottishduck alone ... poor intel people they suffer from trauma now if they believe 12900K is still gold let them buy it.

you will see event he 13900K will not be in the same liga than ryzen7000... because you pay extra to have less cores with similar performance compared to 13900K who has more cores and also you pay extra to not have little.big design...

little.big design is still a failure (with game main engine thread landing on E cores instead of P cores and stuff like that)

and about more E cores its a joke its only designed to win benchmarks but real world workloads profit from having LESS cores.

so any smart person will buy ryzen7000 instead of 13900K and 12900K...

What I have is a 5950x.

What I don’t have is weird tribalistic feelings about corporations and pieces of silicon.

[coder]

clicking the DISLIKE buttons is all I can do from my position, and I don't intend to post comments to those Youtube videos.

And those of us without youtube accounts can't even do that much.

[coder]

The power efficiency claims are nonsense. Look at the reviews. The chips are also designed to intentionally hit a constant 95C under load. It’s a ridiculous design decision by AMD.

power efficiency != power consumption

That's the first thing. The second is that you have the option to easily run it at lower power thresholds (also, "Eco mode", which improves efficiency on lightly-threaded workloads?).

What's important is the relative performance of Intel vs. AMD when constrained to similar power envelopes. It's hard to fault AMD for answering Intel's runaway power consumption tactics. The key point is to note which solution gives the best efficiency within your chosen power tolerance.

[WannaBeOCer]

That has nothing to do with their reasons for disabling it on Alder Lake

Expect to be disappointed. ms178 helpfully linked this analysis by Igor's Lab, in the Zen 4 AVX-512 thread. In it, Igor analyzed performance & power consumption of AVX-512 on Alder Lake, and it seems to me that it's suffering from perhaps some clock-throttling issues preventing it from really stretching its legs.

https://www.igorslab.de/en/efficienc...practice-test/

That said, I think Intel probably just didn't bother to optimize the clock frequency curves for AVX-512, once they decided they weren't going to enable it. I expect the implementation on Sapphire Rapids to be very competitive.

It's a mix of two things, Gracemont doesn't support AVX-512 along with segregating the instruction set to HPC which is the reason they introduced VNNI-INT8 over the AVX unit for inference workloads to run on their hybrid architecture. I messed around with SLIDE for a bit but use my Titan RTX for training. https://github.com/keroro824/HashingDeepLearning

Aside from AI workloads and a single emulator I'm currently unsure the exact usefulness aside possibly a few more emulators according to the developer of RPCS3. Intel's Arc A770 16GB model with 512 of their tensor accelerator cores seem more interesting if I didn't already have a Titan RTX.

I'm not running into any throttling issues, I see all the cores pegged at 4.7Ghz at stock and 5.2Ghz with my OC with AVX-512 on Alder Lake and I also noticed AVX-512 uses less power than AVX2 on Alder Lake. Then again I'm on Asus' latest 2004 bios but still using microcode 15 to keep AVX-512 enabled.

[coder]

The only exception is that for the FMA instruction some of the most expensive Intel CPUs, with a price of thousands of dollars have a second 512-bit FMA unit, so only for FMA they have a double throughput when 512-bit instructions are used. This 2nd FMA unit is present only in all Xeon Platinum, a part of the Xeon Gold and in those of the Xeon W models that support AVX-512. It was also present in a few of the HEDT Intel CPUs.

In Ice Lake SP, Intel sought to overcome their disadvantage relative to Zen 3, in part, by enabling dual-FMA on all models. Granted, there are far more Skylake SP and Cascade Lake SP Xeons in service, currently.

All the Intel CPUs and AMD CPUs that support AVX-512 have exactly the same throughput: two 512-bit instructions per clock cycle.

The difference between the various models is only in the restrictions that may forbid both instructions executed in a clock cycle to be certain of the more complex instructions.

On most Intel CPUs, only 1 of the 2 instructions may be an FMA or an FADD.
On Zen 4, only 1 of the 2 instructions may be an FMA, but the other can be an FADD, so this is better than for most Intel CPUs with AVX-512.
On Intel Xeon Platinum and similar CPUs, both instructions can be an FMA.

Not only Zen 4 has a better throughput than the majority of the Intel CPUs by being able to do both an FMA and an FADD per cycle, but it has also a double throughput for certain kinds of shuffle and permute instructions.

You missed the part where Zen 4 has two further ports: store and store/F2I (float-to-int?). Also, I wouldn't be so dismissive of Zen 4's limited multiply/FMA throughput, especially considering my point about Ice Lake SP and upcoming Sapphire Rapids.

Zen 4 will continue to have a better AVX-512 implementation than most of the already existing Intel CPUs.

Well, you're comparing Zen 4 to Skylake-era cores. So, of course it's better than those. What's more interesting is to compare it with Sapphire Rapids' Golden Cove AVX-512. Do you know of any analysis of it, via Alder Lake?

[qarium]

Userbenchmark is a joke and if you notice many of the test are blank for the A770 because no one that’s not under embargo has one yet. Regarding regular rasterization they already announced that in DX12/Vulkan their A750 trades blows with the RTX 3060 while DX11 will be slower. They’re going to be in a similar situation to AMD’s GCN where their DX11 driver was ass then fanboys starting calling it fine wine. There’s no point in buying a Vega/RDNA1 GPU now since neither of them support DX 12 Ultimate meaning lack of mesh shaders.

right userbenchmark is a joke but you know we do not have intel arc a770 benchmarks yet...
this means i work with the informations i have right now.
and right now it looks like my vega64 is faster than the a770 if you do not use raytracing and if you do not use the 16gb vram.

i don't know what you mean but right now it looks like if you have a vega64 like i have you have no or little reason to buy a arc a770...

[coder]

At the end of the day Intel screwed up by removing AVX-512 from consumer hardware due to haters of the instruction set for example Linus Torvalds:

That has nothing to do with their reasons for disabling it on Alder Lake.

When it comes to the actual workload I doubt AVX-512 workloads are more efficient on a non-native implement of AMD's which is "double pumping" while Intel uses a native implementation of AVX-512.

There's a little-known penalty of mixing in AVX-512 instructions into a program primarily using 256-bit width or smaller. That's because the CPU suddenly has to start updating the fields of vector registers above 256-bits, since you might use them. I suspect this could be dramatically lessened on AMD's implementation, especially if they use separate 256-bit physical registers for each half of the 512-bit ISA registers.

I have a 12700K from the first batch which still supports AVX-512 so if I do get my hands on a 7700X I'd definitely will test the two.

Expect to be disappointed. ms178 helpfully linked this analysis by Igor's Lab, in the Zen 4 AVX-512 thread. In it, Igor analyzed performance & power consumption of AVX-512 on Alder Lake, and it seems to me that it's suffering from perhaps some clock-throttling issues preventing it from really stretching its legs.

https://www.igorslab.de/en/efficienc...practice-test/

That said, I think Intel probably just didn't bother to optimize the clock frequency curves for AVX-512, once they decided they weren't going to enable it. I expect the implementation on Sapphire Rapids to be very competitive.

[qarium]

You're joking, right? Their "poor showing" has them beating Alder Lake i9-12900K by 22.9% (geomean):

https://openbenchmarking.org/embed.p...a=19d1d59ab461

And while lowing launch prices vs. previous generation & maintaining the same average power consumption vs. 5950X! Intel will not be able to say the same!

o please let scottishduck alone ... poor intel people they suffer from trauma now if they believe 12900K is still gold let them buy it.

you will see event he 13900K will not be in the same liga than ryzen7000... because you pay extra to have less cores with similar performance compared to 13900K who has more cores and also you pay extra to not have little.big design...

little.big design is still a failure (with game main engine thread landing on E cores instead of P cores and stuff like that)

and about more E cores its a joke its only designed to win benchmarks but real world workloads profit from having LESS cores.

so any smart person will buy ryzen7000 instead of 13900K and 12900K...