It's Still Undecided Whether Ubuntu 20.04 LTS Will Support 32-bit x86 (i386)

[Weasel]

If the only software blocking the transition are Steam and Wine, which means basically proprietary applications that already require hacks to work more often than not, I'm not seeing the issue.

Well then maybe you have an issue with your eyesight.

The only realistic way forward for that is to wrap up each software in the best possible environment for it, and then keep it stable. Sandboxing or not.

No, the only realistic way forward is to keep building the packages and not drop anything. It's fucking simple.

Both Wine and Steam are moving targets, static environment is delusional.

Steam is 32-bit on purpose because Valve have to remind idiotic fucks to keep their 32-bit capabilities and this is one way they force their hand. This is praise worthy.

World would be so much better off if these idiots who want to "drop drop drop drop" stuff would find something else to drop, perhaps that subpar thing between their ears.

[blackiwid]

I just bought a Netbook on ebay a week ago. I had between a thinkpad x220 and also a chromebook 11" but nothing could compete.

I mean on paper the chromebook (with real linux installation) looks nice probably a bit more hours, faster processor IPS display, higher resolution.

But that all can't make up for the disadvantages of it:
- 11.6" is to big to be really very portable
- can't be opened with one hand
- the biggest point: the chrome keyboards are just garbage.
- no ssd/harddisk can't just build in a ssd.
- 10% more weight

I don't start with the price did cost me 35 Euro on ebay, but yes it's supposed to be a portable typewriter with reading here and there a web page, and there chromebooks and frankly nearly everything out there sucks. everything > 10" is to big and you need a somewhat good Tastatur which most netbooks especially my model have.

That said I don't care about ubuntu use some debian live distro with openbox on the moment but will replace it soon with nixos.

And that is my second netbook I have my old sadly was destroyed back then, with somebody running over the power cord and ripping it out of my hands and back then I used it with the first versions of gnome 3. since then they reduced at least ram usage a lot so it's usable even probably not my cup of tea anymore for other reasons.

[starshipeleven]

Well then maybe you have an issue with your eyesight.

Well, I'm not the one ignoring the obvious here, so... probably not.

Both Wine and Steam are moving targets, static environment is delusional.

Actually making Steam client itself run on 64bit isn't going to be hard as it's basically a 64bit-only Electron application https://support.steampowered.com/kb_...4090-RTKZ-4347 (it is a web application shipped with its own webkit web browser, that on Linux is ONLY 64-bit since 2016).
Wine is opensource and already works on Linux.

The point is games, that are shipped in binary form and most of the times NOT opensource.

And yes there is where I see the obvious where you do not.

Steam ships a STATIC runtime it tries to run all the games with, and PlayOnLinux also does the same, shipping a specific version of Wine that was sometimes patched to work specifically with some game as that's the LAST KNOWN GOOD version of Wine for that particular game before some breaking regression none is ever going to fix because it's a lot of pain for little gain.

And you should already know why, you little ball of anger. You always whine about opensource developers breaking API in libraries. Guess what happens when you try to run a PROPRIETARY and BINARY application with a more recent library that has broken the API or has changed in some other incompatible way.
And how do you fix it since you can't alter the application?

Come on, tell me.

Steam is 32-bit on purpose because Valve have to remind idiotic fucks to keep their 32-bit capabilities and this is one way they force their hand. This is praise worthy.

Yeah, forcing people to maintain a dead architecture just because you can't be arsed to do a decent job with your own application.
Sounds like one of your usual whines about how Linux third party library development, no wonder you are so angry.

[starshipeleven]

I tried Lubuntu 18.04 and I discovered that it runs and boots slower than Windows 7. Then I started to wonder - where Linux development made a wrong turn? Even Ubuntu mini with Openbox boots slower than Win7. How many bloatware crap is installed with mainstream distros?

I'm confident that it's probably just Ubuntu that sucks.

That said, you can't really beat Windows 8 and 10 Fast Startup which is basically a form of fast hibernation https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/...dows-10-a.html so I suggest to look at some other metric to see what is bloated or not.

[Vistaus]

No one is talking about dropping arm 32bit, yet. But even the past 5 years of the lowest end phone arm is 64bit based on A53, eg SDM410 (2014H1) or newer. You can get arm 64bit sbc now for $5 too, eg la frite.

Plus Google is about to force 64-bit apps on the Play Store, so even the last 32-bit ARM's in cheap phones will die. Unless they are non-Android phones of course, but those usually run something lightweight anyway, so it doesn't really matter there.

[Tomin]

The most recent, and probably also most numerous, types of 32-bit x86 machines around today are the Atom N270 based netbooks. They are around 10 years old today. These netbooks typically came with Intel 945 graphics with OpenGL 2.1, or NVidia ION graphics with OpenGL 3.3(?). Due to Microsoft licensing terms, most came with 1 GB RAM, as this was the limit for the cheapest Windows XP netbook license.

Intel GMA 950 can't do OpenGL 2. It's OpenGL 1.4 + some extensions and the rest is "faked" by Mesa. I.e. some of the features are implemented in software.

[caligula]

I'm confident that it's probably just Ubuntu that sucks.

Ubuntu needs to support all hardware out of the box. It can't be made faster without disabling some of that support.

That said, you can't really beat Windows 8 and 10 Fast Startup which is basically a form of fast hibernation https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/...dows-10-a.html so I suggest to look at some other metric to see what is bloated or not.

Not sure if it really matters. Modern Linux systems boot to X in 2 seconds (from efi boot menu). Yes it's that fast.

[caligula]

I tried Lubuntu 18.04 and I discovered that it runs and boots slower than Windows 7. Then I started to wonder - where Linux development made a wrong turn? Even Ubuntu mini with Openbox boots slower than Win7. How many bloatware crap is installed with mainstream distros?

Ubuntu isn't tuned for low end hardware. You can improve the boot time with some simple configuration in 5 minutes. But you're just not their target audience. It's funny how people don't realize this. Ubuntu is just one of the distros. Maybe try another one.

[Weasel]

Actually making Steam client itself run on 64bit isn't going to be hard as it's basically a 64bit-only Electron application https://support.steampowered.com/kb_...4090-RTKZ-4347 (it is a web application shipped with its own webkit web browser, that on Linux is ONLY 64-bit since 2016).
Wine is opensource and already works on Linux.

And Wine gets updates, relies on new libraries as it implements more Windows APIs. Similar with Steam. Like I said, moving target.

Steam ships a STATIC runtime it tries to run all the games with, and PlayOnLinux also does the same, shipping a specific version of Wine that was sometimes patched to work specifically with some game as that's the LAST KNOWN GOOD version of Wine for that particular game before some breaking regression none is ever going to fix because it's a lot of pain for little gain.

And you should already know why, you little ball of anger. You always whine about opensource developers breaking API in libraries. Guess what happens when you try to run a PROPRIETARY and BINARY application with a more recent library that has broken the API or has changed in some other incompatible way.
And how do you fix it since you can't alter the application?

Come on, tell me.

Static runtime is good for a given time point, but Wine updates its dependencies (dunno about Steam) as it implements new APIs as I mentioned previously. Yes using a static runtime with a static wine version is fine, but that's NOT what I'm talking about.

Yeah, forcing people to maintain a dead architecture just because you can't be arsed to do a decent job with your own application.
Sounds like one of your usual whines about how Linux third party library development, no wonder you are so angry.

I don't give a flying fuck about the "people" you speak of, which is the idiotic fucks I was talking about. Valve cares about users, not idiotic fucks, that's why what they do is praise worthy.

As a user (speaking in general), I want to keep running my apps, in 5 years, in 10 years, in 50 years. Of course, Linus also thinks the same way about backwards compatibility, I'm sure you know the drill. As a user and that's what matters.

Funny that you mention API/ABI breakage, which is a similar thing: prioritizing "dev convenience" over end-users. That's the cancer that infests Linux userland and why it's such a clusterfuck of hell for dependencies and for users.

[caligula]

The most recent, and probably also most numerous, types of 32-bit x86 machines around today are the Atom N270 based netbooks. They are around 10 years old today. These netbooks typically came with Intel 945 graphics with OpenGL 2.1, or NVidia ION graphics with OpenGL 3.3(?). Due to Microsoft licensing terms, most came with 1 GB RAM

The original Bonnell core along with the power hungry mobo chipset was a horrible platform. Especially the chipset which basically eliminated all low power advantages you got from the slow CPU. Those netbooks became popular shortly after the OLPC, but were replaced with tablets. They're terribly slow. They were considered slow even back then. They kind of ruined the whole Atom brand. People only bought those because the cheapest consumer laptops were often heavy 3-4 kg Acer 15.6" "gaming" systems with 1 to 2 hours of battery life. Ultrabooks or tablets did exist back then, but quickly replaced that market. Thank god.

Also, the iGPU support might be good now, but it took years to get there. Having suffered from shitty performance and drivers, my strongest feelings suggest killing them all with fire. Nobody will miss them.