Microsoft Reportedly Requires "Signature PCs" To Be Locked To Only Running Windows

[edwaleni]

Just a heads up that Microsoft and many large corporates offer large discounts on software and hardware ordered through the MSFT online store. A kind of company perk.

So while you may think its unconventional to order stuff from MSFT just to install Linux, the guy probably got it for cheap through his company.

[Passso]

Just a heads up that Microsoft and many large corporates offer large discounts on software and hardware ordered through the MSFT online store. A kind of company perk.

So while you may think its unconventional to order stuff from MSFT just to install Linux, the guy probably got it for cheap through his company.

[GizmoChicken]

I'm really not interested in apportioning the blame - I would just like an otherwise lovely piece of hardware to function :-)

Unfortunately, I don't have the proper skill-set needed for getting your hardware to function. But I consider myself an expert at apportioning blame, so I'll help with that, instead.

The issue is that the SSD (Samsung MZVLV512HCJH-000L2) can't be discovered - one work around on _other_ laptops is to change from "RAID" mode to AHCI. For whatever reason Lenovo chose to disable the mode setting page in the BIOS

Looks to me like more than 99% of the blame should be apportioned to Lenovo, with the remaining blame apportioned to Intel, or whoever should have upstreamed proper RAID support.

As you say, Lenovo chose to disable the AHCI/RAID mode selection setting. And no, I don't believe for a second that MS forced them to do so. Maybe Lenovo mistakenly thought that they were under some obligation to disable the mode selection setting. But I doubt that's the case either. No, I suspect someone at Lenovo made a bad choice and is now looking to redirect blame. But who knows, maybe I'm completely wrong, and MS is fully to blame. Either way, we'll probably never know.

But I can tell you this: A few weeks ago, I bought a Lenovo Yoga 710 15 2-in-1 at Best Buy. Although that model wasn't, to the best of my knowledge, a Signature PC, I couldn't manage to install Ubuntu 16.04 on it, which was truly disappointing because the laptop is lightweight but well-constructed, has a great screen, has a great keyboard, and reportedly has a great battery life. Granted, I didn't spend much time trying to figure out what was preventing the installation. Instead, I returned the Lenovo same day, and exchanged it for an Asus Q504UA 2-in-1 that was on sale. Ubuntu installed 16.04 onto Asus Q504UA without any issues.

And no, I'm no shill for Asus. Actually, I've had some bad experiences with Asus customer support in the past, and at one time, I vowed to never to buy another Asus product. But the Asus Q504UA was on sale at a steep discount, and so I couldn't help myself. So far, so good with the Asus Q504UA, and I'm glad that I broke my vow.

[anarki2]

So when Lenovo *confirms* it's because Linux drivers are cr@p (as if we didn't know that), there's no headlines on Phoronix. Only about the false "report" on the eeeeeevil Microsoft blocking Linux. How childish.

[lowflyer]

Maybe Michael put the link so that you do NOT buy those hardware?

To make people NOT buy something you provide a link to their website????

Aaaah, now I get it. I am sometimes quite slow to understand. This is "reverse polish logic". That makes sense.

[Passso]

To make people NOT buy something you provide a link to their website????

Aaaah, now I get it. I am sometimes quite slow to understand. This is "reverse polish logic". That makes sense.

Yes, the same way you say do NOT drug it's bad

[sdack]

I very much like what Microsoft does here. It's the things people will remember about them once the company goes to hell.

Of course it's no good for the customers who want to install more than Windows 10, but what can a customer really do about it other than not buying it? Ergo, go to bed with Microsoft and you will get laid. Microsoft is doing and doing it and doing it, going into beds and taking your money with such an amazing stamina, since 1975. Their managers most have been to Vietnam - out of the tropic jungle into the economic jungle - and are still killing it!



PS: Don't worry about any sarcasm or cynicism you may find here! Your Internet Explorer or Edge will reported it to Microsoft automatically.

[starshipeleven]

In Europe those models are hard to find, and they are generally more expensive and less polished than the "public market".

Um, how about you click on the link and see how:
-it is a UK based site, selling in the whole EU with the usual 2 years of warranty.
-they have laptops with full HD IPS panel options at like 600 euros or less (You won't find IPS panels on stuff that costs less than 1000-1500 euros, and fullHD screens are also not available on laptops costing less than 1000 euros usually)
-most of their laptops have both a sata drive and an msata slot (again rare in affordable laptops), possibly also a DVD drive bay you can tell them to replace with another sata drive at the fab.
-you can actually easily avoid the total bs ultra-weak "dedicated" cards most OEMs add in laptops as they need a 8GB NVIDIA card because marketing, and buy a laptop with a dedicated card only if you really need it.
-they offer 6-cell batteries on most of their laptops, while 99% of other laptops are 4-cell batteries.
-you can drop all stuff you don't really need because you scavenged from other sources maybe (hard drives, RAM)
-you can ask them to not install an OS and save the Windows license cost.
-all laptops in there have exact same if not better build quality of most OEM stuff (as they are OEM-grade stuff, just look at pics or reviews), but they lack a brand on them.

Really, I linked that place because them and others that are in the same businness are pretty much the only sane choice for any smart laptop buyer, windows or linux.

The only way to screw this is to make a group (1000+ people) who buy those computers and send them back to resseller indicating it does not work properly (here we can make this within 7 days).
Be sure resellers will boycot this system right after because they have to discount a lot those returned laptop...

Nah, reseller is too big to even give a fuck.Pretty much all will not notice even if you buy ALL such laptops and then return ALL of them. Way too big to notice or care, they will just refurbish them (re-shrink-wrap them) and keep selling them at full price or with a small discount.

[Sonadow]

After reading this (much more sane) explanation, it all boils down to this:

Linux dumbnuts blaming Lenovo for daring to release new hardware that Linux does not support yet. Oh boo hoo, get a life. We have always been well behind the curve over hardware compatibility. The link also clearly explains why Lenovo did that:

Im trying not to respond to the masses of indignant people replying to my comment but you seem a little more knowledgeable than the people looking for a reason to hate on MS.
The yoga is particularly thing and requires some very specific thermal profiles to operate. It also needs some very careful power optimizations.
The AHCI and standard RAID mode will allow the MS driver to load by default and stay that way. The MS driver doesn't have the thermal control or profile required for the thin and light Yoga body, or the drive would get too hot, throttle, drain battery, etc.
Lenovo locking it into RAID redirect mode means that the MS driver cant load and the intel driver (the real, proper driver) has to be used, which has the right thermal and performance profile for the chassis.
Without this configuration the storage would throttle and battery life would suffer.
This is touched on elsewhere in the thread, btw.

If anybody tries to install a fresh copy of Windows 10 straight from a vanilla ISO into the Yoga, it will also fail. The main difference is that there exists a driver for Windows that can be loaded at install time to make Windows see the NVMe storage.

Since open source proponents love to boast that the 'community' can do anything, why don't they actually prove it for once and reverse engineer their own driver for this RAID-mode setup on NVMe drives instead of whining like spoilt brats?

[Sonadow]

fter reading this (much more sane) explanation, it all boils down to this:

Linux dumbnuts blaming Lenovo for daring to release new hardware that Linux does not support yet. Oh boo hoo, get a life. We have always been well behind the curve over hardware compatibility. The link also clearly explains why Lenovo did that:

Im trying not to respond to the masses of indignant people replying to my comment but you seem a little more knowledgeable than the people looking for a reason to hate on MS.
The yoga is particularly thing and requires some very specific thermal profiles to operate. It also needs some very careful power optimizations.
The AHCI and standard RAID mode will allow the MS driver to load by default and stay that way. The MS driver doesn't have the thermal control or profile required for the thin and light Yoga body, or the drive would get too hot, throttle, drain battery, etc.
Lenovo locking it into RAID redirect mode means that the MS driver cant load and the intel driver (the real, proper driver) has to be used, which has the right thermal and performance profile for the chassis.
Without this configuration the storage would throttle and battery life would suffer.
This is touched on elsewhere in the thread, btw.

If anybody tries to install a fresh copy of Windows 10 straight from a vanilla ISO into the Yoga, it will also fail. The main difference is that there exists a driver for Windows that can be loaded at install time to make Windows see the NVMe storage.

Since open source proponents love to boast that the 'community' can do anything, why don't they actually prove it for once and reverse engineer their own driver for this RAID-mode setup on NVMe drives instead of whining like spoilt brats?