Librem 13 Free Software Laptop Nears Funding Goals, After Self-Funding

[Drago]

beetreetime I suggest taking mental health pills regularly. Now on the subject:
T430s, has 6-row keyboard, with dedicated buttons for: mic mute, sound mute, volume, and one I don't use under linux. Delete key is bigger and on the right spot. I agree for insert and end keys, though. And you must be joking about PgUp and PgDown. These are the most clever located, just around the arrows. Very convenient when reading docs. And I read docs, just like I type a lot, because I am a developer.

[nadrimajstor]

Isn't https://www.entroware.com/store/apollo same hw for half the price?

[blackiwid]

how could this thread become about 6 key laptop keyboards vs 7 key keyboards? that is so much off-topic and that startet on page 1?
The keyboard is shurly the smallest problem of any Thinkpad and again it has nothing to do with the news.

The question is, are there any way to get a notebook without KNOWN builtin non replacable blobs? Or at least getting close to it?
The cited guy talks about not using (newer) intel Hardware I agree to that, it seems to be locked down so hard that its nearly impossible to even reverse engineer coreboot not to mention libreboot.

But it goes further, it suggest to not use x86, in general I would be good with that, because I dont use flash or any other proprietary crap on my working machine, so I would on that side have no problem. But what Hardware does he suggest? ARM?

I see only as example tablets that wont even in any way boot a normal linux distribution, the best u can get is a android kernel and base system full with 1000 driver blobs that boots then ONLY this special ubuntu version, where u not even are able to start normal X apps.

Then the graphics driver situation is also worse than on x86, so what does he think about that?

And I also not 100% agree that failing of purism is a good thing, maybe for the parcipicants thats true because maybe they will feel like they fall into a fraud. But what are the news or signal then "people dont want free laptops or are not willing to pay much for it"

when it succeds at least the message is there that there is/would be a market for such hardware, and somebody brings the real deal.

So far my 2 cents.

[Drago]

blackiwid Don't get me wrong, but build quality matters. Right now, the hardware is virtually the same, for example Thinkpad E540 costs 450Euros has exactly the same parts as T430 costing more than 1000Euros. But portable, reliable computer is so much than this. Casing, plastic quality, cooling system, ease of maintenance, display resolution, display type, keyboard layout, all this matters, especially for a picky person like us. No casual user will ever care if his laptop is open sourced or not. And frankly I don't see any of independent laptop manifacturers, come close to the build quality of macbook, thinkpad T, etc. And if you look at the various IT conferences, these are the laptop brands on stage.
Actually Chromebook Pixel is not bad, if it wasn't that expensive and with ridiculous SSD capacity.

[blackiwid]

Don't get me wrong, but build quality matters.

I did not say that it does not matter in general but if I can have a free laptop with some hardware problems vs a nearly perfect hardware with not even the option to ever having coreboot, I take the free laptop.

laptop keyboards for pickey people are anyway extremly bad, its only a matter how bad exactly so for more than small internet comments u would use a external keyboard anyway (at least I am that pickey) . and the question if it has 6 or 7 rows is not the most important on that matter.

IF I would want to critisize thinkpads it would be about the prices and resolutions of the displays, here lenovo has problems, not about the keyboard or the models that has no mousekeys that was really really bad I would never buy a notebook without mousekeys or I would deactivate the mouse completly.

But that are important factors after the freedom question, size matters (around 12.5" is ideal for me and maybe even smaller) and then resolution of the display and price. AFTER that the rest comes.

On keyboard layouts I want a full shift key on both sides, so no arrow-up key directyl under the enter key. There are so many solutions for the ctrl key swap it with fn swap it with caps lock or dont use key chords, thats what I do (ergoemacs / xah-fly-keys) at least in emacs

but I would argue that even as programmer that not 100% of the time only programms shift is much more often pressed than ctrl. But again there are many ways to work around ctrl key problems if the right shift is moved one a bit left because of the curser-up key and smaller you have to force your pinky to press often a very unconfortable position and risk on getting RSI. But again I could maybe even live with that because I use a external mechanical keyboard anyway.

Maybe that would change if there would be business notebooks with full mechanical keyboards but even then it would not been my main input device because it cant compete with my TEK keyboard

[beetreetime]

Drago, you obviously love Macs and have never used a Thinkpad before.

T430s, has 6-row keyboard, with dedicated buttons for: mic mute, sound mute, volume,

Please look at Thinkpad keyboard more closely:

and one I don't use under linux.

But I do on my old T520.

Delete key is bigger and on the right spot. I agree for insert and end keys, though.

The Delete and End keys are slightly longer not twice taller. It's far easier to feel a twice taller key then it is to feel a key that's only slightly longer. On my T440 I routinely mistake End/Insert for Home/End. I use Home/End to get from start line to end line in typing.

And you must be joking about PgUp and PgDown. These are the most clever located, just around the arrows. Very convenient when reading docs. And I read docs, just like I type a lot, because I am a developer.

You obviously are not a developer. Because it doesn't matter whether the PgUp/PgDn are at the arrow keys or near the delete when your hand is mostly on the letter keys.

Original reason why the 7-row keyboard was use is so people don't have to get use to a laptop are being on a desktop.

and the question if it has 6 or 7 rows is not the most important on that matter.

The keyboard is important. It's the most using interface on the laptop. frankly the 6-row is designed for size at expense of functionality. The 7-row is design for functionality of the desktop but take up more space. many 14 and 15 inch laptops have more then enough room for the 7-row but because their makers are closet Apple fanboys, they use the 6-row instead.

[IsacDaavid]

- Fn and Ctrl swapped

I used to hate that practice with a passion until I realized Ctrl and Alt become symmetric on both sides of the keyboard because of that. Moving Fn to the corner plus the trackpoint and the overall good build quality make Thinkpads the best laptops to type in.

[AmiableDan]

Three things to consider.

a) Before crowd fund money is released, the fund goals must be met. Usually once they are, then whoever's running it can then charge all those credit cards and access those hundreds of thousands of dollars. A short-term loan of $40K or whatever for a couple weeks would be worth it you needed/wanted to get your hands on that big pile of money. Pay back the $40K or whatever and? Profit!

b) The whole point of going thru a crowd fund rather than, say, Amazon Partners or EBay, is that you're supposed to be more ethical. And exposing your concept/idea/project to the public as an election, if you will. The WHOLE POINT is that if you can't generate enough interest, then the crowd fund model lets you know. This could be hijacking that. A subversion.

c) Please take your Thinkpad religious wars to Reddit or Facebook where your rants will be on-topic and expected. It's a distraction - probably not purposeful? It's an interesting article and I'm hoping people who know more than me about this can join in. Thinkpad vs Lenovo rants bury this. Facebook's ThinkPad page, OTOH, would welcome your input!

[Drago]

AmiableDan The whole point is that crowd-funded laptop, build possibly in thousands ( because there are not so many people caring for openness ), will never be a high quality laptop at affordable price. You can't compete with engineering force and manufacturing of the big ones. I personally use my laptop to earn money, and I need to trust the hardware as much I trust the software. Will never buy a laptop looking like a toy. On the other hand, we have a class of high quality laptops that *almost* work with Coreboot, and they just need some more work. Why not have the best of the two worlds.

beetreetime Well, you need glasses too. I said T430s, which looks like this:
http://www.lenovo.com/images/subseri...p-keyboard.png
Dedicated buttons for mouse and stuff. Not a recent model but still with a good specs. Lenovo considered their mistake with removing dedicated mouse buttons, and put them back in the latest iteration.
P.S.: never owned any apple product in my life, and planning not to.

[profoundWHALE]

Librem is in a good place right now where I think that they could have a branding deal with the Linux distros to have the Laptops shipped with Coreboot preloaded with "xyz" and a USB stick also preloaded with "xyz". The only real difference is the lid of the laptop would have the logo and the 'super key' would have the logo as well. This would increase their reach because they could be featured on the websites of the different distros.

Also, I would love to get one, I really would, but my CAD money has $0.75 USD value.