Originally posted by Panix
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Recommend an inkjet?
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No... you have things very wrong.
The ONLY advantage to inkjunk is that you could potentially run extremely long paper through them.
Print quality of inkjunk is GARBAGE unless you spend $5 per page on paper. Laser printers print the same regardless of what kind of paper you put in them.
Noise is practically non-existent on a laser -- you hear, at most, the sound of the rollers turning. None of that head shaking nonsense.
Alignment.... laser printers line everything up perfectly. Inkjunk has a head that moves back and forth across the paper and each stroke is always slightly out of alignment from the last stroke unless you overlap strokes, in which case you get BLUR.
Separating the ink from the head does NOT reduce costs -- they (the manufacturer) profits more that way because it costs THEM LESS, but they get to charge you the same.
And laser printers are just as refillable as inkjunk.
Originally posted by crazycheese View PostThis is total nonsense. Both systems have advantages.
HP - opensource gods, drivers with exceptional support, HIGH ink costs if using normal catridges, LOW to MODERATE ink cost if using XL catridges or refilling the ink, ink catridges mostly have integrated heads(1), EXCEPTIONAL quality image drawing even on normal quality paper, GOOD text printing, FAST printing speed. Good printers if you dont buy lowest market segment ones(or read reviews before) - they consume more and known for bugs with paper feeder.
Canon - binary drivers. By far not all models supported. I personally had to "fight" three(3) days over Cannon 2900 Laser printer. This is not a driver quality I expect. Low to medium ink costs, very comparable to HP XL catridges. EXCEPTIONAL quality image printing, however some report ink to be of low resistance against UV and rupture. Refillable. Units are a bit better priced than HP.
Hope it helps someone.
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Sources please No, rly, sources would be nice
You forget cancer and you forget printing costs for single household.
When using inkjet there is great amount of alternative ink.
Also, I have used laser from HP Laserjet 4L and I must say the printing quality for text work is same, unless you're some abc-lover with 2000x magnification glass enjoying the sexy font lines hehe.
Yer, its same, its good. Definately much much better than dot-matrix(although low print costs are unmatched with dot-matrix).
For graphics you will use laser/ink paper anyway, so the costs are same, the ink quality is better! Unless you print money lol. Or something requiring fine strict lines rather than oil paint style.
Yer, of course 200kg color laser box is best! But look at the price! And running costs! And cancer thing.
Originally posted by droidhacker View PostNo... you have things very wrong.
The ONLY advantage to inkjunk is that you could potentially run extremely long paper through them.
Print quality of inkjunk is GARBAGE unless you spend $5 per page on paper. Laser printers print the same regardless of what kind of paper you put in them.
Noise is practically non-existent on a laser -- you hear, at most, the sound of the rollers turning. None of that head shaking nonsense.
Alignment.... laser printers line everything up perfectly. Inkjunk has a head that moves back and forth across the paper and each stroke is always slightly out of alignment from the last stroke unless you overlap strokes, in which case you get BLUR.
Separating the ink from the head does NOT reduce costs -- they (the manufacturer) profits more that way because it costs THEM LESS, but they get to charge you the same.
And laser printers are just as refillable as inkjunk.
Don't know if there's any truth to it, but I read somewhere that HP printers are actually all made by cannon now.
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Originally posted by crazycheese View PostSources please No, rly, sources would be nice
You forget cancer
and you forget printing costs for single household.
When using inkjet there is great amount of alternative ink.
Also, I have used laser from HP Laserjet 4L and I must say the printing quality for text work is same,
unless you're some abc-lover with 2000x magnification glass enjoying the sexy font lines hehe.
Yer, its same, its good. Definately much much better than dot-matrix(although low print costs are unmatched with dot-matrix).
For graphics you will use laser/ink paper anyway,
so the costs are same, the ink quality is better! Unless you print money lol.
Or something requiring fine strict lines rather than oil paint style.
Yer, of course 200kg color laser box is best! But look at the price! And running costs! And cancer thing.
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Lol, you are not going to kill me cause I use inkjet at home, wont you?
I suggest I tell you, what I know and then you tell me, what you know, and we shake hands and stay friends instead of puting this small part of internet on fire )
Originally posted by droidhacker View PostNobody's talking about dot matrix except you, but you bring up an interesting point, because inkjunk is actually very similar to dot matrix and shares some of the same flaws... the alignment problem I mentioned... dot matrix had those too. The basic operation is similar, except that rather than stabbing the ink from the ribbon onto the paper, the inkjunk SPRAYS it.
They are slow, noisy, very bad quality, but are extremely efficient, which of course reflects their current price. Yes, current price.
Look at this: http://geizhals.at/eu/?cat=prmat
Printing large amounts of financial docs or logs - they are perfect for this.
They have NO alignment, they do not need it. You can align the head with your hand - they will probably survive nuclear attack. At least my Epson LX-300 was like that in DOS era.
Originally posted by droidhacker View PostYou are thinking of some VERY old fashioned kinds of toner.Originally posted by droidhacker View PostHuh? There are tons of toner manufacturers, all of which make every kind of toner for compatibility with every kind of printer.
Then, there is no manufacturer able to duplicate highly complicated toners. They REFILL it. And in the moment they refill the stuff goes KABOOM from there(ever tried opening dirtbag of your vacuum cleaner, unless its water-based. Yeah, the ink analogy lol). Many do this quite carefully, but still vast amounts of dust make it out and this is why manufacturers consider it dangerous to refill toners.
Now compare the refilling process to simple ink.
Originally posted by droidhacker View PostUnless your single household prints so few pages that the $25 inkjunk never even eats up the cartridge it came with (i.e. about 25 pages or less within the lifetime of the printer), then laser costs FAR FAR less to operate for ANYONE.
There purchase cost(running cost) for toner is also much higher and the toner also has "best before" so if you dont use it - its wasted.
Of course, as a result of more efficient storage and dosing, laser uses LESS color element when printing, but its still outperformed by dot-matrix(lol). But the result differs as well - laser prints at lower dpi and the result looks like its pen-made. Inkjet paints, the result looks like oil. It is the reason many photographers use inkjet even if they can afford professional color laser. Epson is very good for this - uses lots of ink and the results are very color reach.
Originally posted by droidhacker View PostWow, your 20 year old 300 DPI laserjet 4L prints in equal quality to a brand new inkjunk? You know that you are really making my case for me...
The thing that I wanted to say is - laser has not that heavily progressed since 20 years(~14 years actually). The color came, the efficienty rised, the ram amount decreased, but the technology stayed same. Its dry-toner heat press.
Originally posted by droidhacker View PostI suggest you get your eyes examined. If you can't see the difference, then there is definitely something wrong with your vision.
Originally posted by droidhacker View PostNo, for graphics with a laser printer, you'll use regular copy paper that costs next to nothing.Originally posted by droidhacker View PostNo, the LASER quality is INFINITELY better.
Originally posted by droidhacker View PostThere is no similarity AT ALL between oil painting and inkjunk printing. There is no way possible for an inkjunk to reproduce the layers and texture of an oil painting -- it CAN'T be done. For that, you would have to look towards 3d printers, but for that (one that can do what you're claiming), you're looking at tens or hundreds of thousands of $$. For a 2d print of an oil painting, you're still looking at laser being FAR FAR more effective.
Aaand then comes laser press and does pancakes en-masse! Splendid!
Originally posted by droidhacker View Post200 kg? What are you printing? Posters? This is a different beast and not applicable here.
Also, wikipedia in its article on laser printers has nice paragraph about secret markings lol. You know you help NWO when you buy laser printer? Haha.
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Originally posted by pingufunkybeat View PostPerhaps this is offtopic, but I've just set up an HP Photosmart 2610 under Linux, and it was extremely easy, and fully supported.
I for one am impressed with the state of the HP drivers.
I think Panix had an paper jam in his inkjet, then he forceably fulled the paper away (the proper jam removal is even imprinted on the printer) and destroyed something within head positioning mechs. Or some HP engineer really fckdp on this model. Either way I would send it to HP ifs within guarantee. Sheet happens.
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Originally posted by crazycheese View PostForget this, topic is so old, I forgot you were the topic starter.
Now.
Lets see how its better to go shopping in modern world.
Study here: http://www.amazon.com/HP-PhotoSmart-...8714544&sr=8-1
And here: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...scrollFullInfo
You will read about possible paper jam, that is clear the engineering problem. I wont buy it.
If you printer fails to align, there is something really really bad happend to head positioning mechanism. Mine aligned instantly and I have already done it several times.
The thing with HP printers where they require time to start up, which is often criticized, is because of the way they handle the necessary head cleaning. They park it every time they go off and they clean it every time on start. It takes time(15-20 secs). They produce sounds, yes. But then it is set to print. Others dont do it, they just park/unpark heads without cleaning. Then they start running 20 minutes cleaning cycle every week. And if they miss it, there is high probability ink dries up in the head. I prefer the HP way.
HP printers, for the most part, are garbage and to get a half decent one, you have to spend $100s of dollars. The entry level line is awful and full of flaws. The Photosmart line has a paper japm problem. I've experienced it with two already, one I owned and one from work.
I guess you, like others in this forum, or maybe many Linux users want to defend any company that has any minimal opensource support at all regardless of the quality of the product or support.
I wanted to support HP, too, but I have nothing but bad experiences with the ACTUAL PRODUCT. I can't use it with Linux if it doesn't work or has major design problems.
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Originally posted by crazycheese View PostI think Panix had an paper jam in his inkjet, then he forceably fulled the paper away (the proper jam removal is even imprinted on the printer) and destroyed something within head positioning mechs. Or some HP engineer really fckdp on this model. Either way I would send it to HP ifs within guarantee. Sheet happens.
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Originally posted by Panix View PostIt was already broken when I bought it. Trying to blame me for the product's flaws is a bit shady. I will ignore your posts from now on.
It its happening on regular basis, yes, its other case. For example brother is CRAP on color, lexmark is CRAP in low-cost segment(less than 500$), canon and epson require you to reset non-original catridges with resetter, samsung is dropping linux support, canon drivers are CRAPY BINARY PIECE OF JUNK that are kept in the corner.
I have two b209 that costed 100$ each, work BOTH FINE out of the box, ink is CHEAP and there a lots of it, it does NOT jam, it has EVERYTHING in linux that it has in windows - EVERY OPTION from autopaper sorting to scanner dpi, it does NOT require to mess around - ZERO work.
You can ignore me and consider what you want. If HP company starts fckng up (like Oracle today) I will throw it away the same day. Apparently they mention LINUX support in a handbook, they provide same-day hardware driver support, the driver is almost completely opensource(same microcode by some models as with amd), they run own site DEDICATED to linux support, they PAY TEAM TO DEVELOP LINUX DRIVERS.
And no, I am NOT HP fan, not to slightest degree. I just SEE WHAT THEY DO. I watch the situation and I share my experiences just like most of us.
In any case, I hope you find the working linux printer that suits you and works without troubles. Cheers.
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