Originally posted by schmidtbag
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Raspberry Pi Announces The $50 High Quality Camera
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Originally posted by L_A_G View PostI never really understood the point of the camera interface or the dedicated camera port and hardware on the rPi when it's got standard USB ports that you can use to connect any USB webcam you'd want to.
If we were talking about a much lower end SBC or a microcontroller I could understand this, but for the rPi this just sounds like feature creep causing redundant functionality.
USB equivalent products tend to cost more, mostly for the convenience and added cost to being more of a consumer product(proper enclosure and all that, less knowledge required). Definitely not redundant functionality by including MIPI-CSI.
Originally posted by DoMiNeLa10 View PostI hope someone will make an adapter that makes this camera module usable with standard PCs (interface to something like USB). It would be a nice "high-quality" webcam for people who livestream, and potentially other applications
Shop Brio Webcam. Step up to the world’s most technologically advanced webcam. Logitech BRIO delivers 4K Ultra HD video with 5X zoom, and RightLight 3 with HDR
It'll cost more, but that's because they're throwing in the enclosure / packaging / and all that other stuff to target a consumer. Might include some additional hardware for processing before sending over USB too.
I'm sure people will come up with guides on how to DIY with this RPi camera if you want something cheaper, and in time with enough sales this sensor becomes cheap enough that it'll appear in cheaper webcam products too
Seems to be selling one product in alibaba for example at about $10 per module(bare sensor is like $1 or so):
https://www.alibaba.com/product-deta...7b3622dbc3JrrK
I don't know how much of the budget goes into actual sensor/module purchase for typical webcam products, but I guess this one is a few dollars too many for most.
Originally posted by DoMiNeLa10 View Postmaybe using it to make 3D scans of objects, where computing power and memory of RPi might not suffice.Last edited by polarathene; 01 May 2020, 02:45 AM.
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Originally posted by schmidtbag View PostMeanwhile, keep in mind that phone cameras use a rolling shutter, as opposed to a progressive shutter. That is avery undesirable effect.
Sony CMOS Rolling shutter 12.48 MP, 4072 x 3064, 1/2.3 inch, 1.55 x 1.55 µm, RGB, 60 fps, MIPI, LGA (Ceramic) 92 pins, 40fps (PDAF), 12M BI Stack CIS,
https://elinux.org/Jetson/Cameras#MI..._to_be_working
Originally posted by schmidtbag View PostBear in mind that a 100MP DSLR costs between $10k-$50k. That's not an unreasonable price point for what you're getting (though I sure as hell wouldn't buy one).
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Originally posted by polarathene View Post
Sony A7R IV is capable of 240 MP (16 shots composited from base 60 MP sensor), and will cost less than $10k.
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Originally posted by Slartifartblast View PostThere's more to a high quality camera than pixels, do remember the more pixels you squeeze onto full frame you get less photons you get hitting each pixel so down goes the sensitivity and increase in noise,
I was pointing out in the post you quoted that there are such DSLRs under $10k offering that many pixels, wasn't saying anything about quality, not that the A7R IV isn't nice?
The 240MP offered, is from a technique that shifts the sensor, note that while it may be a 60MP sensor, to aquire the 240MP image, it takes 16 shots total with very slight shifts of the sensor.
Originally posted by Slartifartblast View PostHowever the old maxim still rings true, a camera is only as good as the person holding it.
I'm no professional, but I made these two via photogrammetry and my 2018 smartphone camera(8MP):
Statue: https://sketchfab.com/3d-models/stat...b9ab78f22fd881
Pizza Slice: https://sketchfab.com/3d-models/pizz...8fc23d3c887d53
And this one from a musuem I was awarded 3rd place in a competition(Canon EOS 6D Mark II):
https://sketchfab.com/3d-models/skel...4d40b407e9eb44
On the higher end stuff, I was a part of the team that built these two projects(I didn't capture the photos for these ones):
Homestead: https://store.steampowered.com/app/7...The_Homestead/
Nefertari's Tomb: https://store.steampowered.com/app/8...y_to_Eternity/
Probably wouldn't get the same results on those projects with a smartphone camera that I used for mine, no matter how good you are with a camera :P
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Originally posted by polarathene View PostYou can get similar if what you're after is 4k webcam, look at Logitech Brio:
Originally posted by polarathene View PostI'm sure people will come up with guides on how to DIY with this RPi camera if you want something cheaper, and in time with enough sales this sensor becomes cheap enough that it'll appear in cheaper webcam products too
Now lets say we put a USD 50 to cs lens power drive so powered focus and zoom, Yes you have spent less than 200 USD dollars you can spend the difference on casing. One little catch here this solution will have more focus distance and zoom distance than fairly much all your webcams on the market.
It is fairly simple to kick webcam class around for being crap in zoom and focus because just like phone cameras they have made compromised in picture capture ability to be small..
Really RPi high quality camera is kind of in a middle ground.
The 200 USD of parts is fairly much in quality of photo, zoom, focus that possible with the RPi high quality camera with a entry level digital camera. Yes entry level digital camera also around 200 USD except that does not have a standard lens mount so you cannot change lens or connect it up to a microscope or the like. When I say entry level digital camera I mean like "Sony Cybershot DSC-W830" yes you can use this as a webcam and it will beat the living crap out of everything that is sold as webcam including that Logitech Brio but the control software can be picky as hell.
Microscope cameras at the same quality are also around the same price as the RPi high quality camera but you run into cases where their firmware gives you hell.
Basically I see RPi high quality camera as in the entry level digital camera price range with changeable lens(this is a feature that normally does not exist this cheep). Yes for diy nature and cost of casing and the fact it still a compromise on image quality still a toss up if this is a good or bad idea. Webcam devices are not what RPi high quality camera competing with and are really not competitive against RPi high quality camera.
Something to remember RPI high quality camera with the 25 dollar lens is going to be like 100mm deep at least yes the Logitech Brio is only 30mm deep so completely different class to webcam or camera in phone that extra physical distance in lens is what allows all the extra zoom and focus stuff. So it not a compact device once setup to function.
Now if someone released entry level digital camera in the 200 dollar range with changeable lens that can be computer controlled that would kick the crud out of RPi high quality camera.
Most people are not aware how much focus and zoom is just simply not possible because your design is compact so limited depth for lenes. Yes the multi cameras you are seeing on the back of phones these days is attempting to get around the focus and zoom limitation the limited depth problem causes. Webcams are a form of compact camera where percentage of focus and zoom in optics have been given up for compact depth then your phone cameras in fact give up more. When it comes to optics RPi high quality camera with the lens mount is not taking a compromise in this department this is why comparing it to webcams and phone cameras will never work out right because they are simply in a different class due to the restricted depth requirement on webcams and phone cameras.
Yes comparing RPi high quality camera against the right classes of devices is not exactly the best price possible but function wise for what you need it could be the best choice at the time.
Originally posted by polarathene View PostSeems to be selling one product in alibaba for example at about $10 per module(bare sensor is like $1 or so):
Originally posted by polarathene View PostIt should be fine for photogrammetry with stills I guess, which you don't process on the RPi hardware, but this has been a pretty common cheap DIY approach with RPi and the 5/8MP cam products for years to create 3D scans of things. I've done such with my smartphone camera and got ok results before.
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Originally posted by polarathene View Post
Yeah... like go to my first post on page 1, it's basically the first thing I said?
I was pointing out in the post you quoted that there are such DSLRs under $10k offering that many pixels, wasn't saying anything about quality, not that the A7R IV isn't nice?
The 240MP offered, is from a technique that shifts the sensor, note that while it may be a 60MP sensor, to aquire the 240MP image, it takes 16 shots total with very slight shifts of the sensor.
You seem to be knowledgeable on this subject so do you mind answering a question? I'm considering spending the majority of my stimulus check on a decent camera, basically an $800+tax limit. Due to their weather sealing I've been looking into Pentax cameras since most of my for-fun shooting will take place in areas where that'll be helpful (forests, lakes, trails, etc) combined with wanting to experiment with astrophotography (both with and w/o my 90mm refractor) and thinking the protection from weather sealing will be very helpful with all the overnight dew and fog I get for the majority of the year. Outside of that, I'm looking to get into doing residential photography gigs for real estate agents (since there are a ton of them available where I live) and pretty much anything 20MP and up is good enough (although some specify 24MP or better).
So far I'm considering getting the aforementioned Pentax K-70 since it's brand new and paired with a good lens, but I've also come across some lightly used Pentax KP's for almost the exact same price with the exact same lens. While I've bought used gear on eBay before, $800 for a used camera is more than double my most expensive used gear purchase and makes me really nervous even if it is from a reputable seller. Just debating on getting the K-70, going cheaper with an older K-S2, or nervously going used and getting a KP.
I know that, for the most part, it's more about the lens and the person than it is just the camera, and that the Pentax 18-135 lens has very good reviews, takes nice pictures (based on the sample galleries I've found), and is a weather resistant lens.
With that said do you think I should quit debating in my head and pick the newer K-70, the cheaper/older K-S2, or is there another camera in that price range you'd recommend?
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