A Number Of Fedora 21 Features Were Just Approved

[droidhacker]

Adding rpmfusion repo is just the start of the ordeal; flash plugin needs adobe repo;

That is assuming that you want to use the official unsupported/discontinued and somewhat blacklisted flash plugin....
Alternatively, I think that firefox is handling some flash junk all by itself now....
And there is also gnash-plugin, an open source flash implementation, part of Fedora.
Or you can just ditch flash altogether, its kind of pointless these days.

chorme needs different repo;

Fedora ships with Firefox, so it isn't like you're without a browser. If you happen to like something specific that is different than the distro includes, you will always be faced with installing it yourself. Take wondoze for example... if you want Firefox or Chrome, you have to go and download it. Fact of life, you will NEVER get an OS distribution to include *everything in the world*.

virtual box needs one more;

Virtualbox is in rpmfusion.
But it is also a similar situation as the browser. Fedora includes its own virtualization platform, ready for you to use in the official repositories.

As far as other/generic multimedia goes... Fedora actually handles a lot of cool stuff right out of the box. AMD/Intel/CrystalHD H264 decoding hardware included. It does kind of suck about the whole mp3 situation, I agree. Its not even a particularly wonderful compression technique, and it is sad that so many people still use it instead of things like vorbis.

[wizard69]

I really hate crap like this when I see it published.

You would think that people conversant with Linux distros would be better able to grasp the concepts here.

There are few issues, I've encountered as a fedora user:

1. Terrible Multimedia support from fedora: mp3, dvd, mkv playback is a big trouble; users have to struggle to install flash plugin; rpmfusion, adobe flash, etc.

For one it isn't a struggle, to make it out to be one paints you as someone not capable of managing simple system needs.

Second Fedora doesn't publish patent encumbered software.

Third if you want Adobe flash support why wouldn't you go to Adobe? The bigger question is why would you want Flash support knowing all of the security risks associated with it.

Whereas an Ubuntu user can simply [ ] enable restricted-extras in their software, and have fun. Fedora users they have to google, and manually run so many things.

Funny I have had to do little installation outside the repositories. Most of those installations are probably code you wouldn't understand so I doubt a discussion can happen here. However the reality is that any non trivial use of a Linux distro will end up with software installed that doesn't come from the distro repository.

2. No official forums

Forums aplenty if you look.

3. copr is only for free software devlopers and FAS account holders, you can't build anything multimedia related there,or any emulator or something which users would like like simplescreenrecord (ffmpeg dependency);

Why would you want simplescreenrecord? Hopefully not to pirate movies. In any event you can get it to work if you want.

Ubuntu's Launchpad and ppa system is just great for users and developers, you and I can build and publish free and non-free software for ubuntu.

So?

Good luck trying to publish a non-free software at rpmfusion or copr.

Do you even grasp why this is a problem, that is publishing patent encumbered software there or even software with a restricted copyright! Fedora keeps its repositories as clean as possible, that is not a bad thing at all.

4. No updates for some softwares like wxGTK (stuck at 2.8) rest of the world is using 2.9 (e.g., aegisub, dolphin-emu); so some software can't be updated.

Not every package remains viable over the long term. Further sometimes even Fedora prefers to stay with more stable solutions. If this is a problem you can upgrade yourself. However it might be advisable to check first to see why a certain package lags in the repository, there might be a good reason. It could also mean that nobody gives a damn about the package anymore.

In the end whining about why one package is a point release behind on a distro is non sense. Look hard enough and you can find old versions of software shipping on every distro.

Fedora says that it is illegal to use patented software in USA; hence can't host or build them at USA. But Ubuntu build and distributes all non-free and patented software, is Ubuntu not is USA or they have some magic formula which Redhat don't know of?

Fedora takes the moral high ground when it can. I'd much rather work with a company that is ethical instead of one that isn't. Using Ubuntu is in effect supporting a company with poor ethics when it comes to patents.

As to where Ubuntu is located, give me a break. If you are so uninformed about this you had no business posting this comment at all.

Beyond that do you even realize the difference between non-free and patented software?

Can anybody please enlighten me, why ubuntu can allow restricted-extras and non-free software in their servers and ppa but fedora/redhat can't? Are rules different for Redhat and Ubuntu in USA?

It is pretty simple, one distro is headed by an ethical company and the other isn't. That encapsulates the whole issue really. It goes beyond that as RedHat has policies that are probably stricter than absolutely needed but those policies assure users that they are getting a clean distro.

[AdamW]

Thanks Adam!

Adding rpmfusion repo is just the start of the ordeal; flash plugin needs adobe repo;

Flash's license doesn't actually allow others to redistribute it. That's why it's not in RPM Fusion. Mandriva used to use a wrapper package to get around that, but it's kind of clunky. I don't know the details of Ubuntu's distribution, but if someone is packaging Flash itself without permission from Adobe, they're breaking the license.

chorme needs different repo;

Eh, Chrome. I don't know why the hell anyone uses that thing. But note that it includes its own Flash player (Google has an arrangement with Adobe), so if you're using Chrome as your browser, you don't need the separate Flash plugin. Chrome is kind of a special case: Chromium is not in Fedora, not because of licensing *or* patent issues, but just because it doesn't meet Fedora's packaging standards (it bundles a whole ton of libraries in a way which makes it just about impossible to unpick them).

virtual box needs one more;

I don't run it, but last I checked, it was in RPM Fusion.

this http://www.if-not-true-then-false.com/ helped me a lot, without such websites, it's not possible for a regular user to have good multimedia experience with fedora.

You keep saying 'multimedia', but I don't see what a browser plugin, web browser, and virtualization app have to do with multimedia.

But with Ubuntu and OpenSuSE it is easy with 1click installers; http://software.opensuse.org/package/flash-player. I hope Fedora Workstation will be exceptionally good.

From the Adobe license (http://wwwimages.adobe.com/www.adobe...layer_12.0.pdf , search for "notwithstanding" to find the English part...that made my morning): "3.3 Distribution. This license does not grant you the right to sublicense or distribute the Software. For information about obtaining the right to distribute the Software on tangible media or through an internal network or with your product or service please refer to http://www.adobe.com/go/acrobat_distribute for information about Adobe Reader; or http://www.adobe.com/go/licensing for information about the Adobe Runtimes." (which is followed by a bunch of stuff about how the h264 decoding is licensed only for personal non-commercial use, cannot be installed on servers, blah blah blah, all of which is also clearly incompatible with redistribution).

I don't know about SUSE's position, but AFAIK Adobe hasn't given RPM Fusion any permission to redistribute Flash. So, in accordance with its license, they don't.

1 click installs are easy to implement; already gnome-software does that (in gnome-shell); only a meta file with "repo and packages to install" can do the trick with web-browsers as well for fedora workstation.

Yes. The issues with redistribution are rarely technical ones.

Canonical being in the UK, not a super rich corporation and allowing patented and non-free software be hosted and developed on their servers (launchpad.net), seems to be the reason for UBUNTU's popularity on the desktop.

I wouldn't say you've demonstrated that...

[Hamish Wilson]

Why would you want simplescreenrecord? Hopefully not to pirate movies. In any event you can get it to work if you want.

While I generally agreed with your sentiment, this line is pure troll. There are plenty of reasons why someone would want to either record their desktop or their games other than "to pirate movies". In fact, why would you even use something like this to pirate them?

As to getting it working:

http://fedora-apps.blogspot.ca/2013/12/simple-screen-recorder-is-best-screen.html

[fastrizwaan]

Calinou, my reply was about why ubuntu is popular than fedora; and this is these were the reasons ubuntu works well for most of the Desktop users; hence Ubuntu is popular; fedora is not!

Fedora is about free software, unlike Ubuntu which usually doesn't care. You get what you want.

Just like Ubuntu, most desktop users don't care.

Better not Google.

LOL...

There is Fedora Solved and IRC. There are actually many community resources to help you.

OK.

It's a good thing. I presume it can be multimedia-related if it doesn't use patent-encumbered formats.

But that's a bad thing for desktop users.

It also encourages people to break their systems...

Using fedora updates also break the system; now I'm using selinux=0 in grub, else fedora 20 or rawhide won't boot.

Yeah, indeed, we won't miss it though.

Ya but desktop users want software which work for them like skype, chrome, emulators, etc.!

Generally Fedora is just as up-to-date as Ubuntu non-LTS, if not more (Linux kernel and LibreOffice are more recent currently).

Yes, but some libraries like wxgtk has not been updated for at least last 2 releases. can't build aegisub subtitle editor on fedora.

Ubuntu usually doesn't care about laws and is UK-based (if not Isle of Man... you know why).

That's an arrogant statement; UK and rest of the free world are not insane about software patents.

Yes they are, Fedora does not distribute or promote non-free software, except binary firmware.

except binary firmware? so fedora does distribute non-free software!

Note that I don't use Fedora, I only did in a virtual machine.

That's beside the point; Fedora is not for general computer user; Ubuntu is. Because Ubuntu gives what user wants and needs unlike fedora. And I use Fedora.

[fastrizwaan]

While I generally agreed with your sentiment, this line is pure troll. There are plenty of reasons why someone would want to either record their desktop or their games other than "to pirate movies". In fact, why would you even use something like this to pirate them?

As to getting it working:
http://fedora-apps.blogspot.ca/2013/...st-screen.html

Hamish, that's my blog!

[fastrizwaan]

That is assuming that you want to use the official unsupported/discontinued and somewhat blacklisted flash plugin....
Alternatively, I think that firefox is handling some flash junk all by itself now....
And there is also gnash-plugin, an open source flash implementation, part of Fedora.
Or you can just ditch flash altogether, its kind of pointless these days.

Really, flash is still the defacto standard software for video playback online. I also want flash to go away, cause it has bugs and all, but it's necessary evil. It's like internet explorer of 90s for video content online. So, no flash is not dead and most banks, filesharing sites, business sites, games, music, and most of the live-streaming and interactive stuff is done in flash.

Fedora ships with Firefox, so it isn't like you're without a browser. If you happen to like something specific that is different than the distro includes, you will always be faced with installing it yourself. Take wondoze for example... if you want Firefox or Chrome, you have to go and download it. Fact of life, you will NEVER get an OS distribution to include *everything in the world*.

You do know that chrome has flash plugin bundled! my reply was about Ubuntu's ease of use versus fedora's; with Ubuntu it is extremely easy; with fedora... an ordeal. Yeah, I agree that Windows has even more trouble; but for new users, they'll anyways get that utilities installed by the pc vendor itself.

Virtualbox is in rpmfusion.
But it is also a similar situation as the browser. Fedora includes its own virtualization platform, ready for you to use in the official repositories.

True.

As far as other/generic multimedia goes... Fedora actually handles a lot of cool stuff right out of the box. AMD/Intel/CrystalHD H264 decoding hardware included. It does kind of suck about the whole mp3 situation, I agree. Its not even a particularly wonderful compression technique, and it is sad that so many people still use it instead of things like vorbis.

Every user has MP4 videos recorded using their iphone/android phones. Audio recorded in mp3; Fedora can't play that. We are talking about Desktop Users, not geeks or nerds; This Limitation of Fedora is addressed by Korora.

I replied to "Why fedora is not popular as ubuntu"; so keep the answers in that context please. Ubuntu gives what user wants and so users love ubuntu; fedora gives what fedora wants, so users avoid fedora.

Here's a little assignment for you: ask any of your windows/mac osx user friends to use Fedora all by himself for say a week! Just give them the livecd /liveusb; How many friends do you think will stick with fedora, without you helping or telling them anything about multimedia, etc?

With Ubuntu or korora, at least a few will try and may use it for a few days; but with fedora, there will be an instant "No Please!". We should really try these practical scenario with real humans who are non-geeks. What do you say, how many in say 10 people will accept fedora as their OS? Seriously, try it... you'll love the reaction of new fedora users!

[fastrizwaan]

Dear wizard69, Just try this: give fedora 18/19/20 live-cd or live-usb to your non-geeky friends; ask them to do what they do in their Windows os or MacOS in Fedora! And please DO NOT HELP them (ok you can install the basic os if you want or live os, but not the repos and other multimedia stuff), let them discover the free software world. I'd like to know your non-geeky friends' reaction!

Here's the Prediction with Fedora and your non-geeky friend:

1. Youtube - fail
2. Video playback - fail
3. Music playback - fail
4. eBooks (epub) - fail
5. Games - fail
6. Voice/Video chat - fail


Afterwards, try the same thing with Korora and Ubuntu; there will be a big difference.

Have a look at Mom tries out Fedora 17:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vD0HxrCfIEo

You would think that people conversant with Linux distros would be better able to grasp the concepts here.

[Veerappan]

UK and rest of the free world are not insane about software patents.

Honestly, I think that Redhat's in the right here. Legally, Redhat cannot distribute certain patented software without signing a licensing agreement with whoever owns the patents. If they distribute the software without getting a license to the patents first, they are opening themselves up to getting sued for willful infringement. They are a US-based company, and the US (sadly) recognizes software patents. The EU (where Canonical is based) doesn't recognize nearly the same number of software patents as the US does (you can still get them, but not nearly as easily).

In this case, the US is NOT the free world. Hate to say it, but true... and this is coming from a professional software engineer. Industrial/Manufacturing patents are all fine and good, but software is mathematics, which is NOT patentable. The fact that software patents are being issued and upheld is offensive to myself, and to many other engineers I know. We'd all just rather advance the state of the art instead of bickering over who has the legal right to do what.

[daedaluz]

Honestly, I think that Redhat's in the right here. Legally, Redhat cannot distribute certain patented software without signing a licensing agreement with whoever owns the patents. If they distribute the software without getting a license to the patents first, they are opening themselves up to getting sued for willful infringement. They are a US-based company, and the US (sadly) recognizes software patents. The EU (where Canonical is based) doesn't recognize nearly the same number of software patents as the US does (you can still get them, but not nearly as easily).

In this case, the US is NOT the free world. Hate to say it, but true... and this is coming from a professional software engineer. Industrial/Manufacturing patents are all fine and good, but software is mathematics, which is NOT patentable. The fact that software patents are being issued and upheld is offensive to myself, and to many other engineers I know. We'd all just rather advance the state of the art instead of bickering over who has the legal right to do what.

Software patents are illegal at least in EU and Russia. You can't patent mathematical expressions either and that's exactly what software is.