Systemd-Logind Device Management For Wayland

[intellivision]

If a developer actually commented on BSD, that would be a sort of proof that they did care, wouldn't it? They only care about the platform they are actually working on. Which is linux.

So what you're saying is that you have no evidence and you're basing your statement off pure conjecture.
Sounds like a reasonable argument to me.

[crrodriguez]

So this is a way to cripple the BSDs by proxy, by having essential future frameworks e.g. Wayland depend on SystemD which is Linux only?
Sounds pretty bleak.

Making stuff work in BSDs is the responsibility of BSD developers, nobody else is to blame for stuff not working in BSDs. Also, last time I check, Wayland only worked in linux as it depends on kernel DRM stack.

[Ericg]

Covering a few points.

1) I really doubt the Wayland devs will ever have a hard dependency on logind specifically, but lets not forget that logind doesn't just do random calls to random events. There's a specified API there. If logind ever becomes the 'mandated' standard, you don't have to implement logind specifically, you just have to implement an alternative solution that exposes the same API as logind so that there's compatibility.

2) Yes, systemd is a Linux only project. Lennart has never denied that or said otherwise, he doesn't feel the need to cripple his software as well as the software available on Linux just because BSD can't keep up with development. And that reality is shared by other development communities from the looks of it. How long did it take the BSD's to get KMS graphics drivers? Development on those didn't stop before it was even started just because *BSD is lagging behind Linux.

3) Calling systemd the userspace kernel is a bit much.... though granted, it is PARTIALLY accurate. If you have the linux kernel + systemd, you have the basic building blocks necessary for an operating system. Congrats. That being said, the amount of modularity in systemd is one of its biggest points, and if you don't want systemd to handle ACPI events for example... you just turn it off and go back to installing acpid.

[Delgarde]

So what you're saying is that you have no evidence and you're basing your statement off pure conjecture.
Sounds like a reasonable argument to me.

Well, the evidence we have is the fact that people keep building stuff that doesn't work on BSD, and nobody does anything about it. Why would that happen if anyone cared about BSD?

[smitty3268]

So what you're saying is that you have no evidence and you're basing your statement off pure conjecture.
Sounds like a reasonable argument to me.

Try using a little common sense for once.

Can you come up with a reasonable argument for why these people have some sort of grudge against the BSDs?

Is it more reasonable than the idea that they just don't care about BSD because they never use it or work for anyone who uses it?

Which explanation seems more likely to you?

[bkor]

Where? I found only one (in the comments)For example as Gnome already depends on logind APIs such fallback might no serve much purpose (or would it?).

GNOME optionally depends on this. The fallback is the unmaintained ConsoleKit. That bit was supposed to be maintained by Canonical, but they seem to be switching to logind as well. I guess ConsoleKit will then be needed for BSD.

[bkor]

So what you're saying is that you have no evidence and you're basing your statement off pure conjecture.
Sounds like a reasonable argument to me.

Pot calling kettle black much? Show proof that people are actively trying to hurt BSD. Almost all developers I don't know just don't care. Then a few care. Then you have Lennart who is only against portability in systemd because it is a pain. However he also wrote various software that he did ensure runs on BSD. So, meh, lot of big words from you, not much logic though.

Btw: systemd, not systemD, etc.

[Teho]

GNOME optionally depends on this. The fallback is the unmaintained ConsoleKit.

To my understanding this is not the case for Gnome 3.8 and newer hence Gnome 3.8 depends on systemd on Gentoo for example.

[duby229]

To my understanding this is not the case for Gnome 3.8 and newer hence Gnome 3.8 depends on systemd on Gentoo for example.

Yeah, I read into that a little bit. My understanding for that is there are bugs in systemd that prevent the dependencies that gnome has from working unless you just use the whole thing, then it works ok. The gentoo package maintainers for gnome got fed up with trying to make it work and decided to just make the whole thing a dependency. The debian devs that were doing a lot of the work gave up first which prompted the gentoo devs to give up too.

[Teho]

My understanding for that is there are bugs in systemd that prevent the dependencies that gnome has from working unless you just use the whole thing, then it works ok.

What? That makes no sense. How could a bug (what bug are you even refering to here?) in systemd possibly add dependencies to Gnome? Gnome dropping support for ConsoleKit is not systemd's fault. Also systemd-logind is not intended to be used separately from systemd so it's not a "bug" if it doesn't work without systemd as PID1. The API however is stable and reimplementable and porting systemd-logind to other environments is possible, it just requires you to do some work (especially after systemd 205+).