In-Fighting Continues Over Mir On Non-Unity Ubuntu

[rambutan]

Jono Bacon should change the PR strategy

https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2013-June/037364.html

I strongly dislike how Jono Bacon tries to put the burden of guilt on upstreams (KDE, Gnome, XFCE, LXDE, Enlightenment...) "slam the door shut", how dares he.

He can talk as much as he want now about about "working hard to be as open, transparent, and collaborative as possible", but the truth is that "The purpose of Mir is to enable the development of the next generation Unity", it's black on white in the Mir spec: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Mir/Spec

That contrasts with Linus Torvald's attitude and his famous "We don't break userspace", doesn't it? If Canonical truly wanted to be collaborative they'd show that with collaborative specs and code, not with empty nice words.

The sooner Canonical speaks transparently about their objectives, the better. All this dishonesty only makes things worse.

[intellivision]

Rick Spencer ex-microsoftie must really be proud of himself now. This is so like Elop 2.0.

And Bacon, is brainless bacon (rude, but accurate).

Mark, isn't it all about opencore? Whats the sense to call something *ubuntu*, if its not *ubuntu* ?

Unless you're actually trying to communicate mindless babble, do you want to repeat that in some sort of coherent way?

Ubuntu: Upstart & Mir
Gentoo: OpenRC & Wayland
Slackware\BSD: sysvinit & X.org
Everyone else: systemd & Wayland

The entire situation could be summed up with systemd and wayland being such a done deal, not even the excellent OpenRC can stand a chance let alone Ubuntu

systemd isn't the be all and end all solution for every platform, that's the problem.
Upstart is still in use as the init service for Chromium and Chrome OS so it does have its uses outside of Ubuntu, and OpenRC is being targeted as a potential replacement for SysV init in some BSDs, most recently Arch BSD.
I should point out that systemd will probably never get adopted in environments which require a more permissive licensing scheme as it has been released under the LGPL, so there will always be a need for an init system that isn't released under a copyleft license.

[RahulSundaram]

systemd isn't the be all and end all solution for every platform, that's the problem. I should point out that systemd will probably never get adopted in environments which require a more permissive licensing scheme as it has been released under the GPL, so there will always be a need for an init system that isn't released under a copyleft license.

Two things wrong about these statements.

1) Systemd isn't a solution for all platforms. It explicitly targets Linux and no other platform
2) systemd is not under GPL. It is under LGPL which is a weak copyleft license which is the same license that glibc uses. If you are already using Linux, LGPL is a acceptable license for any use.

[intellivision]

Two things wrong about these statements.

1) Systemd isn't a solution for all platforms. It explicitly targets Linux and no other platform
2) systemd is not under GPL. It is under LGPL which is a weak copyleft license which is the same license that glibc uses. If you are already using Linux, LGPL is a acceptable license for any use.

They were the points I was trying to get across, but it appears that you got to explaining them first.

[DanL]

The only hope is that these free software fundamentalists don't gain market share because instead of Microsoft we will have something close to those islamist fundamentalists in the middle east in power. But just like in the real world, the fundamentalists are self defeating because of their middle ages thinking so they don't actually have any chance of becoming a world power. Complain of Microsoft for as long as you want, you don't want Stallman or his minions as your leaders.

How much does Microsoft pay you to troll this forum?

[johnc]

The entire situation could be summed up with systemd and wayland being such a done deal

If by "done deal" you mean stuck with perpetual <1% marketshare, then I agree.

These silly teeny-bopper girlie fights are extraordinarily embarrassing.

It's kind of like whenever Linus mouths off. Yeah everyone here thinks it's cool that he speaks his mind, but at what point does it come off more as a cartoon than a serious, professional group?

[johnc]

How much does Microsoft pay you to troll this forum?

He's right, though. Power-users and enthusiasts avoid Linux like the plague, much less your average folk.

There's an elephant here in the living room. It's not hard to see for those who have their eyes open.

[bnolsen]

He's right, though. Power-users and enthusiasts avoid Linux like the plague, much less your average folk.

There's an elephant here in the living room. It's not hard to see for those who have their eyes open.

huh? lots of hard core developers use linux. it's a very very logical platform for getting stuff done. I'm waiting to see how all this x/wayland/mir crap all falls out first. but wayland and mir need to actually get somewhere first.

[RahulSundaram]

They were the points I was trying to get across, but it appears that you got to explaining them first.

I am merely correcting some of the factual inaccuracies in the points you are trying to make.

[intellivision]

I am merely correcting some of the factual inaccuracies in the points you are trying to make.

I've edited my post so those inaccuracies have been addressed, so your follow up post is no longer required.