Originally posted by 89c51
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VA-API Support Set To Be Dropped From Mesa
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Originally posted by 89c51 View PostAs far as i understand it this has nothing to do with Intel. Intel uses their HW and this is a shader based implementation. So if intel was on G3D they would just plug their HW in the tracker (or whatever fits technically) and would not even bother with shaders.
why would they develop a good shareable graphic framework that benefit their rivals directly?
if Gallium3D is stable, mature and fast, who will buy intel?
they will develop a working driver for their flagships NOW, using the old mesa infrastructure (quick, easy and dirty)
After a few years later, who will maintain the unmaintainable driver => let other open source enthusiast do it, developer will surely "enjoy" maintaining two different driver structureLast edited by unknown2; 08 September 2012, 12:11 AM.
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Originally posted by gururise View PostIts too bad. Wish someone could patch this up into working condition, maybe then r600 users would have some nice VA-API.
Originally posted by unknown2 View Postwhy would they develop a good shareable graphic framework that benefit their rivals directly?
if Gallium3D is stable, mature and fast, who will buy intel?
The second question I can't even parse. Are you saying the radeon and nouveau drivers are in the state they are (lack of power management, low performance, no access to hardware decoders) only because Gallium isn't mature or something? And that if Intel had a Gallium driver, the radeon and nouveau drivers would magically become better in this regard? That makes no sense.
Intel switching to Gallium would change pretty much nothing. That's why they don't do it, it'd be a huge effort for no real gain.
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Originally posted by Gusar View PostThis is pure nonsense. First, the mesa work Intel does (to bring opengl 3.1 and such) benefits *both* kinds of drivers, gallium and classic mesa ones. Gallium doesn't have a whole different opengl stack, as some seem to think.
Originally posted by Gusar View PostThe second question I can't even parse. Are you saying the radeon and nouveau drivers are in the state they are (lack of power management, low performance, no access to hardware decoders) only because Gallium isn't mature or something? And that if Intel had a Gallium driver, the radeon and nouveau drivers would magically become better in this regard? That makes no sense.
Intel switching to Gallium would change pretty much nothing. That's why they don't do it, it'd be a huge effort for no real gain.
i am not a mesa expert, but if my understanding about Gallium is correct
Gallium backend is shared between different drivers.
if intel use Gallium, they will need to tune the Gallium backend performance and implement various state tracker (e.g a full functional vaapi/vdpau state tracker).
But this means that AMD driver will be benefited from these features, too (automatically)
AMD developers will have more time to tune their driver and it will mature much faster.
Currently, intel is no match with AMD for display hardware. If their driver are at the same level, AMD kicks intel's ass.Last edited by unknown2; 08 September 2012, 07:00 AM.
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Originally posted by DanL View PostHmm. I thought the tracker would be more generic and have the backend implementation left to the driver.
Maybe the generic approach could be used for codecs that are not included in the HW but in any case the HW supports something i see no reason spending time implementing it with shaders.
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Originally posted by unknown2 View Postwhy mesa developer develop vdpau tracker rather than vaapi?
is it because that vdpau is a better api than vaapi? (i am not a expert in this area)
There is a talk about vdpau vs. va-api.
somewhat outdated (2009), but still informative:
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Originally posted by unknown2 View PostYou may be correct. but i don't know what doest intel help to bring r600/700 driver to reach opengl 3.1.
Originally posted by unknown2 View Postif intel use Gallium, they will need to tune the Gallium backend performance and implement various state tracker (e.g a full functional vaapi/vdpau state tracker).
Originally posted by unknown2 View PostBut this means that AMD driver will be benefited from these features, too (automatically)
Originally posted by unknown2 View PostCurrently, intel is no match with AMD for display hardware. If their driver are at the same level, AMD kicks intel's ass.
One, AMD already kicks Intel's ass performance-wise if you use fglrx. So if someone needs the performance, they're already not using Intel. They're using AMD or Nvidia and their blobs.
And two, Intel switching to gallium won't magically make the radeon driver better. To the extent that Intel's work benefits others (the mesa core work), this is already happening! Everything else (access to hardware decoders, power management) is driver-specific, so what framework Intel is using is irrelevant to radeon and nouveau.
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Originally posted by Gusar View PostI don't get what you mean here. Why would Intel help r600? They're Intel! They work on mesa core and their own driver. The radeon and nouveau guys benefit from Intel's mesa core work, but they of course need to take care of driver-specific work themselves. This wouldn't change if Intel switched to gallium.
There already is a VDPAU state tracker and it works. The problem isn't in the tracker, it's accessing hardware decoders, or writing shader-based decoders. If Intel wrote a VA-API state tracker, they'd use it to access their hardware decoder and that's it.
Incorrect. Intel writing a VA-API state tracker wouldn't magically give you access to AMD's hardware decoders. Neither would it give you a shader-based h264 decoder. AMD would still need to write either of these themselves.
Two things:
One, AMD already kicks Intel's ass performance-wise if you use fglrx. So if someone needs the performance, they're already not using Intel. They're using AMD or Nvidia and their blobs.
And two, Intel switching to gallium won't magically make the radeon driver better. To the extent that Intel's work benefits others (the mesa core work), this is already happening! Everything else (access to hardware decoders, power management) is driver-specific, so what framework Intel is using is irrelevant to radeon and nouveau.
AMD pretends to offer an open source driver but going by their incomplete radeon driver matrix, I am wondering what mostly works with Intel. If you need a separate graphics card or want one, then Intel isn't even in the equation but that goes without saying.
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