Valve's Gabe Newell Really Hates Windows 8

[AJSB]

No this do not work for firefox and opera because microsoft earn money in a direct way for the IE and they earn money on ads but firefox and opera only do have a market share with that antitrust kindergarten because they give away the software for FREE and they only earn money on ads.

Microsoft won this battle again! because they earn money on selling IE with windows and they earn money on "ads" and they do have the biggest market share.

Sorry but English is not my natural language and i don't think i understand what you mean....

MS earns money in a *direct way* from IE ?!?

How is that possible ?!?

IE is also free of charge and i remove it from any PC with Windows....so, if it's NOT INSTALLED and didn't paid for it, how does MS makes money from it directly ?!?

(FWIW, i also remove Outlook, Windows Media Player and all that c**p)

[Naib]

Back on topic...


here is more to this than Valve/Gabe are letting on. Why would they suddenly back linux with such vigour?
I mean they pulled in intel to sort out intel drivers, mesa as well as sources ogl stack can't be just abt gabe going batshit mad over win8
gabe/valve are hoping something from this gambit, a 5% marketshare from linux (tops and even then they all won't be gamers) isn't much, do they really think they can increase linux marketshare to really scare ms? or is the threat of the possibility enough for ms todo whatever it is that valve want but are not saying

valves reasons are "for the little guy" and the win8 app store. again diversion away from whatever is their real reason.
The appstore is basically a direct competition to STEAM but there are already other competitors. Sure having the store on every machine by default screams of the IE forcing back in the original anti-trust case, but to jump to linux with such vigour?
They recently had intels gpu driver team out to visit to sitdown to improve L4D2 (ie source...) performance with the opensource drives.
They fixed a load of things in the drivers, in mesa and in source. they are proactively helping which is what is confusing, this is ALOT of effort to bring support to a small percentage part of a small percentage marketshare..

love if this comes true and support stays (I miss playing l4d, l4d2, css, hl2 and dota2 - cant be arsed to boot windows...) but there is a part of me that are really questioning the motives


This seems more politically motivated than it is economically motivated (especially about how much noise is being made even before win8 store is even seen to be viable...). Divesting is always good if there is a decent amount of profit to be made. Linux marketshare is what? between 1% and 5%. WHAT percentage of that will actually play games? that is a VERY small percentage sure support games on linux to drive up the numbers by ppl converting but enough to offset any potential loss to win8 app store? hence my statement this is more than just about economics. ValveGameStation is a possibility


with win8 out in october I guess a good estimate for initial steam release would be around there, steal some thunder and all, show that the alternative is viable

[maldorordiscord]

Sorry but English is not my natural language and i don't think i understand what you mean....

MS earns money in a *direct way* from IE ?!?

How is that possible ?!?

IE is also free of charge and i remove it from any PC with Windows....so, if it's NOT INSTALLED and didn't paid for it, how does MS makes money from it directly ?!?

(FWIW, i also remove Outlook, Windows Media Player and all that c**p)

You do a big mistake IE is not FREE-Beer you pay REAL money in a direct way for the IE because of your WINDOWS license costs.
Compared to that fact the Firefox do not get money from the Windows-License sale.

"so, if it's NOT INSTALLED and didn't paid for it, how does MS makes money from it directly ?!?"

Its simple Microsoft calculate the costs of IE in the windows license this means without the IE windows would be cheaper but they bundle it this means windows is more expensiv because of IE.

"(FWIW, i also remove Outlook, Windows Media Player and all that c**p)"

You are naive because microsoft don't care you pay the bill because you buy the windows license if you use IE,Outlook,Windows-Media-Player or not.

Microsoft earn money on IE even if you use the Firefox only because of the windows license sales.

[Figueiredo]

Back on topic...


here is more to this than Valve/Gabe are letting on. Why would they suddenly back linux with such vigour?
I mean they pulled in intel to sort out intel drivers, mesa as well as sources ogl stack can't be just abt gabe going batshit mad over win8
gabe/valve are hoping something from this gambit, a 5% marketshare from linux (tops and even then they all won't be gamers) isn't much, do they really think they can increase linux marketshare to really scare ms? or is the threat of the possibility enough for ms todo whatever it is that valve want but are not saying

valves reasons are "for the little guy" and the win8 app store. again diversion away from whatever is their real reason.
The appstore is basically a direct competition to STEAM but there are already other competitors. Sure having the store on every machine by default screams of the IE forcing back in the original anti-trust case, but to jump to linux with such vigour?
They recently had intels gpu driver team out to visit to sitdown to improve L4D2 (ie source...) performance with the opensource drives.
They fixed a load of things in the drivers, in mesa and in source. they are proactively helping which is what is confusing, this is ALOT of effort to bring support to a small percentage part of a small percentage marketshare..

love if this comes true and support stays (I miss playing l4d, l4d2, css, hl2 and dota2 - cant be arsed to boot windows...) but there is a part of me that are really questioning the motives


This seems more politically motivated than it is economically motivated (especially about how much noise is being made even before win8 store is even seen to be viable...). Divesting is always good if there is a decent amount of profit to be made. Linux marketshare is what? between 1% and 5%. WHAT percentage of that will actually play games? that is a VERY small percentage sure support games on linux to drive up the numbers by ppl converting but enough to offset any potential loss to win8 app store? hence my statement this is more than just about economics. ValveGameStation is a possibility


with win8 out in october I guess a good estimate for initial steam release would be around there, steal some thunder and all, show that the alternative is viable

I bet on the SteamBox rumor.

Fisrt of all the is the equasion:

10' interface (confirmed) + steam on linux (confirmed) + working on new input methods (confirmed) = ?

Does anybody really believes that all these effords are not directly correlated to each other?

Valve knows that the desktop is going away (talking about long term here, not tomorrow). Anybody who wants to get some work done can use a notebook or a all-in-one, but it can't be better gaming in front of a desk, all by yoursef than in the living room with your family and friends. New HID's that are being created for consoles (wii, kinect and so on) do not work well on the desktop either. Valve is not simply abandoning windows, they know they have to abandon the keyboard/mouse and the hole desktop model (remember I said long term). As Gabe himself said, they have been with us for over 25 years, it's time for something new.

By supporting linux they save a lot of money developing a console from the ground up, since they only need to fix what's missing in the stack with the help of hardware makers, and developing hardware, which is already there and linux already runs on. Finally, if this move to cloud gaming really caches on (which I am a bit scheptical about), they would already have the games runing on linux, which is the the facto standart on servers anyway.

So, basically, by sticking to linux they have it covered from mobile, to living room to server/cloud.

Linux is probably never going to be popular on the desktop because there won't be a desktop in a few years. It is, however, popular on everything else. That is why I think Valve is so enthusiastic about linux.

[entropy]

Back on topic...


here is more to this than Valve/Gabe are letting on. Why would they suddenly back linux with such vigour?
I mean they pulled in intel to sort out intel drivers, mesa as well as sources ogl stack can't be just abt gabe going batshit mad over win8
gabe/valve are hoping something from this gambit, a 5% marketshare from linux (tops and even then they all won't be gamers) isn't much, do they really think they can increase linux marketshare to really scare ms? or is the threat of the possibility enough for ms todo whatever it is that valve want but are not saying

valves reasons are "for the little guy" and the win8 app store. again diversion away from whatever is their real reason.
The appstore is basically a direct competition to STEAM but there are already other competitors. Sure having the store on every machine by default screams of the IE forcing back in the original anti-trust case, but to jump to linux with such vigour?
They recently had intels gpu driver team out to visit to sitdown to improve L4D2 (ie source...) performance with the opensource drives.
They fixed a load of things in the drivers, in mesa and in source. they are proactively helping which is what is confusing, this is ALOT of effort to bring support to a small percentage part of a small percentage marketshare..

love if this comes true and support stays (I miss playing l4d, l4d2, css, hl2 and dota2 - cant be arsed to boot windows...) but there is a part of me that are really questioning the motives


This seems more politically motivated than it is economically motivated (especially about how much noise is being made even before win8 store is even seen to be viable...). Divesting is always good if there is a decent amount of profit to be made. Linux marketshare is what? between 1% and 5%. WHAT percentage of that will actually play games? that is a VERY small percentage sure support games on linux to drive up the numbers by ppl converting but enough to offset any potential loss to win8 app store? hence my statement this is more than just about economics. ValveGameStation is a possibility


with win8 out in october I guess a good estimate for initial steam release would be around there, steal some thunder and all, show that the alternative is viable

I agree - this is something I was also thinking about.
The "leaked" Linux Steam client some years ago, was obviously
something Valve _wanted_ to be found by someone to generate
media attention ("they're up to someting").
I'd say this worked out pretty well and supports the political aspect.

Maybe it's a bit of both, pointing out the upcoming issues with Steam and Windows 8
and testing out how far they can get with Steam on Linux from a technically side.
Also, the idea of an open-standard SteamBox doesn't seem too far fetched.

[PeterKraus]

I bet on the SteamBox rumor.
Valve knows that the desktop is going away (talking about long term here, not tomorrow). Anybody who wants to get some work done can use a notebook or a all-in-one, but it can't be better gaming in front of a desk, all by yoursef than in the living room with your family and friends. New HID's that are being created for consoles (wii, kinect and so on) do not work well on the desktop either. Valve is not simply abandoning windows, they know they have to abandon the keyboard/mouse and the hole desktop model (remember I said long term). As Gabe himself said, they have been with us for over 25 years, it's time for something new.

Not gonna happen. E-sports are here to stay, and E-sports means keyboard and mouse. And Valve has *just* committed with Dota 2....

[AJSB]

You do a big mistake IE is not FREE-Beer you pay REAL money in a direct way for the IE because of your WINDOWS license costs.
Compared to that fact the Firefox do not get money from the Windows-License sale.

"so, if it's NOT INSTALLED and didn't paid for it, how does MS makes money from it directly ?!?"

Its simple Microsoft calculate the costs of IE in the windows license this means without the IE windows would be cheaper but they bundle it this means windows is more expensiv because of IE.

"(FWIW, i also remove Outlook, Windows Media Player and all that c**p)"

You are naive because microsoft don't care you pay the bill because you buy the windows license if you use IE,Outlook,Windows-Media-Player or not.

Microsoft earn money on IE even if you use the Firefox only because of the windows license sales.

I'm not that naive , in that sense, yeah sure, i paid for it but if you go back to 1st versions of IE ever made , it wasn't part of the OS and it wasn't paid either (it was just like any other WWW browser that we could install, so, in that sense, it NEVER was paid and if it wasn't ever paid as an extra then it can be considered free)....but for me that is kinda of irrelevant because, IMHO, MS would charge same price anyway with or without IE in Windows (because it is indeed free of charge)

In fact, IIRC, i might be making a confusion, when MS was 1st attacked because Netscape and all, there was in at least a country where they sold a version of windows w/o IE....and they sold it at same price than regular version w/IE.

[jrch2k8]

I don't think that linux desktops are more secure than win by definition. at least with physical access you dont need a livesystem to get full (root) access to user data - btw that works on os x as well. So lets think about remote access, there you are as save as the apps you run. Every app has flaws, most important for home users are most likely all web browsers, mail clients, instant messaging or office apps. Faults in those apps are used to install malware - currently mainly on windows because of much more users - but do you want to say that flash/java is more secure when you use firefox on linux than on win? You are just lucky that the malware authors target win in most cases, same for os x users. You see that same on android, every system that is popular has got lots of malware (often hidden in pirated apk). Currently you are usually save enough without any anti virus tool in the background - but you can be sure in the case that linux desktops are more popular this will change.

For web servers you already have got lots of attack vectors, mainly because of wrongly parsed vars. Most likely you don't read news about stolen passwords/sql databases. Do you really want to say all those systems run windows? Basically it would not matter much, the most exploited bugs are not inside the os kernel. Of course when you have got already a remote shell you want more, like root access...

mmm if you check firefox it is proven to be more secure on linux than on windows, i mean sure firefox can have crossplataform bugs[the source is not the same for every plataform just almost the same massive difference here] cuz like i said windows security concept is a bad joke, so lets say advapi32 has 1 critical security bug[normally is mined with those] and firefox has to use that API[same as any other windows app] cuz on windows it uses MSVC then firefox can't do squat about it[they can try to reduce or add extra check to try to stop a possible attack] but advapi32 doesn't exist on linux and the linux couterpart don't have that security flaw hence is not exploitable on linux or mac in this case and that same thing is true on any crossplataform application, another example could be Mono[i don't like it but for the sake of the example] is lots of time more secure on linux than using .NET directly on windows since the applications developed with it are 100% on the underlying .NET runtime which are mined with security issues too that no .NET app can protect.

this is most of the security issues present on crossplataform apps, so im not saying apps on linux are 100% secure cuz like i said you can have a crossplataform bug but the app security is as strong as the underlying weak slave of the OS chain and in this case linux/bsd/solaris/etc have a pretty stable chain[not perfect but lot closer than winblows].

now i agree if you have physical access to the PC you just put a firewire or easier just a livecd[work with any OS] and booom.

funny note almost any security issue can grant total control over the NT OS kernel, insane right?[that is what you call a well thought security layout]

[Figueiredo]

Not gonna happen. E-sports are here to stay, and E-sports means keyboard and mouse. And Valve has *just* committed with Dota 2....

Funny, because in Wikipedia's Electronic sports page cites under "Notable electronic sports games" plenty of Fighting games such as Street Fighter, Halo for Xbox and even Dance Dance Revolution...

Many leagues seem to embrace consoles also, so I dont get your point.

I don't know exacly what you mean by e-sports, but i don't see why it means keyboard/mouse. It seems to me most of them are really popular PC games, if the games were not popular, I doubt they would be there at all.

I also don't think you've read my post, because i sad several times this is not hapenning overnight, it is not like every desktop in the world is gonna explode. But as steam introduces their big picture interface and more and more games with support for alternative HIDs are introduced, gamers will wonder why the box is attached to a 22" monitor and not to a 42" tv...

[PeterKraus]

Street-Fighter et cetera are usually played with a dedicated arcade-style controller. Halo? Give me a break. MLG has even dropped it this year. Counter-Strike and Quake Live are the only notable competitive shooter e-sports. MOBA's and Starcraft 2 are PC-based.