ATi + (FGLRX) -> at least 3 years old problem..

[emergence]

Vii7 you are onto something. VSync is off with Catalyst drivers. This must be a bug! How can we log this bug.

[jrch2k8]

Just a few quick notes, in no particular order:
* AMD are doing things with physics (read up on the Open Physics Initiative).
* AMD have an OpenCL implementation for both their CPU and GPU lines. They're also pushing that to be used rather than something like CUDA. They also provide the Stream SDK.
* fglrx used to be firegl only (hence the name fglrx). They switched it to support non-firegl, and that's only been getting ever since.
* AMD do offer support (on specified distros) but it's mainly aimed at where the money is (workstation markets).
* Continuing on support...AMD support the open source drivers. They are actively investing in them, and actively developing them.
* nvidia drivers have their fair share of issues too. Both AMD & nvidia are, from what I can tell, fairly reasonable for their main target (workstations).
* nvidia sure are selling cards like hot bread. Those fermi cards run hot!

1. ok my bad partially, ok +1 for going for an open physics engine, i didnt readed the news about it but is still a fact that currently doesn't exits for gaming like physx is now (is not that bothers me, the gain isnt that impressive but is a cool toy in some games).

2. they have it yes, it works? not oustandingly well in linux, even flash 10.1(opencl accelerated flash) for linux is really perky with fglrx but it works just fine in nvidia blob and in windows (well is adobe flash = the anti-tessis of good secure software but you know what i meanted, youtube works and stuff like that) + many example i've been trying wich work 100% of the time on nvidia but in fglrx is just not there yet beside i hate those massive kernel panics from time to time

3. you are right, i forgot to mention that to make it more clear, aka once oss drivers get good enough return fglrx to firegl only and focus the ppl working over radeon to assist on the oss driver

4. well i used maya in rhel5(a friend of mine 3d designer provide it), lets say im not impressed, most of the choppiness is in there, the kernel crash are there too, video sucks too. the only thing on that machine that works most of the time was maya. ok maybe maya isnt their focus but more things like catia, who knows but going to a comertial distro is almost all the issues of using the latest ubuntu. is more an application thing than an os thing.

5. well in my english level i think i let that very clear, several times, but ok im not sure if it was readable enough (not easy to translate from spanish ), but my point is fglrx is a paid driver aka need AMD support and warranty and QA. the oss driver is community driven with AMD as contributor only aka AMD is 0% responsable support or QA cuz that is work for the community. just to let that clear

6. well i agree with you here up to some point, ok nvidia blob have it share of issues but those can be considred glitches, i mean ok you got issues but any of those issues are game stopper anymore aka i can watch videos fairly well, render good and fast enough, composite works good enough, wine is you better option for now, opencl works like a charm, flash 10.1 works quite good, power managemnt is not perfect but works good enough (can be a lot better), native games works fairly well too, features/performance parity with windows is quite close these days, os support is quite good, the installer sucks, multimonitor works quite nice too, on fglrx most of these points are between barely works and semi low average. so even if nvidia has issues fglrx is unusable for most of this task or at least very close to it. at least for me nvidia blob kick in the ass the AMD blob.(note i prefer nouveau and radeon by lots unless i need to practice with opencl or play some mmorpg when nouveau cant handle it, so i have a little script to switch the drivers for now)(note i geved up with fglrx, the script is only for my laptop with nvidia hardware)

6. yeah i heard that in europe fermi is selling a loot cuz the goverment of the eu consider it a matter of ppl security, they says if they have to face another petroleum crisis again unlike the 70's your fermi card is going to work as house heater too so ppl won't die of cold anymore, +1 for nvidia and their social work (was a joke ovbiously)

[mirv]

1. ok my bad partially, ok +1 for going for an open physics engine, i didnt readed the news about it but is still a fact that currently doesn't exits for gaming like physx is now (is not that bothers me, the gain isnt that impressive but is a cool toy in some games).

2. they have it yes, it works? not oustandingly well in linux, even flash 10.1(opencl accelerated flash) for linux is really perky with fglrx but it works just fine in nvidia blob and in windows (well is adobe flash = the anti-tessis of good secure software but you know what i meanted, youtube works and stuff like that) + many example i've been trying wich work 100% of the time on nvidia but in fglrx is just not there yet beside i hate those massive kernel panics from time to time

3. you are right, i forgot to mention that to make it more clear, aka once oss drivers get good enough return fglrx to firegl only and focus the ppl working over radeon to assist on the oss driver

4. well i used maya in rhel5(a friend of mine 3d designer provide it), lets say im not impressed, most of the choppiness is in there, the kernel crash are there too, video sucks too. the only thing on that machine that works most of the time was maya. ok maybe maya isnt their focus but more things like catia, who knows but going to a comertial distro is almost all the issues of using the latest ubuntu. is more an application thing than an os thing.

5. well in my english level i think i let that very clear, several times, but ok im not sure if it was readable enough (not easy to translate from spanish ), but my point is fglrx is a paid driver aka need AMD support and warranty and QA. the oss driver is community driven with AMD as contributor only aka AMD is 0% responsable support or QA cuz that is work for the community. just to let that clear

6. well i agree with you here up to some point, ok nvidia blob have it share of issues but those can be considred glitches, i mean ok you got issues but any of those issues are game stopper anymore aka i can watch videos fairly well, render good and fast enough, composite works good enough, wine is you better option for now, opencl works like a charm, flash 10.1 works quite good, power managemnt is not perfect but works good enough (can be a lot better), native games works fairly well too, features/performance parity with windows is quite close these days, os support is quite good, the installer sucks, multimonitor works quite nice too, on fglrx most of these points are between barely works and semi low average. so even if nvidia has issues fglrx is unusable for most of this task or at least very close to it. at least for me nvidia blob kick in the ass the AMD blob.(note i prefer nouveau and radeon by lots unless i need to practice with opencl or play some mmorpg when nouveau cant handle it, so i have a little script to switch the drivers for now)(note i geved up with fglrx, the script is only for my laptop with nvidia hardware)

6. yeah i heard that in europe fermi is selling a loot cuz the goverment of the eu consider it a matter of ppl security, they says if they have to face another petroleum crisis again unlike the 70's your fermi card is going to work as house heater too so ppl won't die of cold anymore, +1 for nvidia and their social work (was a joke ovbiously)

1) Bullet is already used in some games, and if I remember rightly it was even used in some movies. But yes, I agree that it's not as big as havoc or physx yet. Hoping that'll change.

2) Flash 10.1 I haven't tried, thanks for reminding me! I haven't had a chance to delve into OpenCL properly yet, so yes it might well be not as stable as nvidia's.

3) I would definitely like to see the open source drivers one day being the "default" driver for everything, but I just don't see it happening. Anything with 3rd party licensing will remain closes, and require the binaries. It would be great though if the open source drivers work fast enough for games particularly (stuff like quake wars, quake4, or rage if it's released for linux).

4) I don't have access to workstation software (or hardware for that matter) but that sounds "yikes". Workstations should be, above all else, stable. Very strange.

5) Could well be my eyes skipping things too. You can only program for so long in a day before text gets blurry...but I do see your point here. I guess with open sourcing the drivers, the onus would fall onto distros to support things - I don't see AMD providing any QA, etc, for the open source drivers (if they even really could), but then they would be pushing people to buy newer hardware (covered by fglrx) anyway.

6) Strangely enough, I had the opposite for a long while - nvidia were less stable for me (I didn't use wine that much). I think they'd be pretty much well on par now for my usage - except with video accel. AMD do have catching up to do there (if they even want to of course). But as always, that's only my experience - others obviously have very different experiences.

7) "Sorry honey, I used all the hot water - just let me play a few games for you."

[Vii7]

* AMD do offer support (on specified distros) but it's mainly aimed at where the money is (workstation markets).

This problem persists on Windows also, and they can't say they don't get enough profit from that OS, more like the main source of profit... so probably they don't know how to fix this...

Currently I don't play any demanding games on Linux, nor do I work with other demanding applications when it comes to graphics - so guess I can go with "Open Source drivers" for now, which is not really a bad thing "for me" - yet others my need the other options of their card... and really sux being an AMD/ATi VGA owner in this circumstances...

I still hope Open Source drivers can be improved, cause they showed more potential in such a short time, compared to proprietary drivers which after many years they still have basic problems on most OS's (probably "all" yet, don't know how they work on OSX).

[Vii7]

PS.If this is "accidentally fixed" with some version of Catalyst - please share this information here...

Thank you.

[bwat47]

Its ridiculous that this still doesn't work.

[d2kx]

Good things come to those who wait... you may find 2011 to be a fantastic year from the very beginning. Just talking about weather and stuff, of course.

[Vii7]

or in clear words tearing,vsinc,Xv is globaly fixed in catalyst 11.1

That sounds good in words. but I'm more interested in practice - just common sense...

[BlackStar]

That sounds good in words. but I'm more interested in practice - just common sense...

Prediction: vsync fixed in 11.1 (with regressions elsewhere), tearing reappears in 11.2/3/4 and is finally fixed in 11.5, hopefully forever. Just wait and see.

[Panix]

You and Q (and others) are always predicting bugfixes for the 'next' driver version.

I would like one answer given which is always ignored or neglected.

If FGLRX is a reverse engineer of the Windows ATI driver and the Windows driver works fine (relatively speaking) and can do these features, how come ATI/AMD or whatever they want to go by, CANNOT implement these features and it's a sore spot with the binary ATI driver still?

I just want to know.