Graphics card for new MythTV (Mythbuntu) box

[chiron80]

I'm in the process of choosing parts for a brand new Linux box (to replace my 10 year old Linux box), and I'm looking for suggestions on what do to for a graphics card. I know there are a bunch of ATI vs. nVidia threads, but most of them seem to focus on gaming performance. My primary focus for this new computer is to get a working MythTV setup, but the computer will also be used for general server use (file server, mail server, web server, etc.). I don't plan on using the computer for general desktop use but I may in the future (I use my laptop for most web surfing, document editing, programming, etc). I do almost no gaming, and certainly nothing that would stress a graphics card.

I've been following graphics driver updates on Phoronix for over a year now, and I see lots of improvements in the fglrx driver (which I am using on my laptop) but I get the impression it isn't ready for prime time on a MythTV box just yet, so I'm leaning towards nVidia.

Requirements:
Low budget (graphics card should be <$100, ideally closer to $50)
Analog TV-Out (no digital TV yet)

In the short terms I'm considering a motherboard with on-board video, in which case I will delay the graphics card purchase until I can afford a higher end model.

Questions:
1) Are there on-board video cards that can handle MythTV with analog TV-out without trouble?
2) What is Linux support like for on-board video? What chipsets should I go for, which should I avoid?
3) Does it make sense to go for on-board now, and hold off on the PCI-express graphics card until I get a digital TV or should I go for a low-end graphics card? It will likely be at least a year before I even consider purchasing a digital TV (not in the budget).

- Ben

[MU_Engineer]

Requirements:
Low budget (graphics card should be <$100, ideally closer to $50)
Analog TV-Out (no digital TV yet)

This is my MythTV GPU setup right there. I have an EVGA NVIDIA GeForce 6200 with an old CRT TV hooked up to the SVHS connector via a SVHS-to-composite adapter. It cost me about $25 after rebate.

In the short terms I'm considering a motherboard with on-board video, in which case I will delay the graphics card purchase until I can afford a higher end model.

Questions:
1) Are there on-board video cards that can handle MythTV with analog TV-out without trouble?

There are very few, since very few boards with onboard video have analog TV-out ports such as composite or SVHS. Most have RGB and/or DVI monitor connectors and/or HDMI connectors. You can get an RGB-to-TV converter and hook that up, but getting a bottom-end GPU with a TV-out port is less expensive.

2) What is Linux support like for on-board video? What chipsets should I go for, which should I avoid?

-Intel: varies. Anything up to the G965 is very well supported by current drivers and XvMC works. However, the video quality is often pretty "meh." Newer chipsets like the G31/33/35 and G41/43/45 are mostly supported by the drivers and will work reasonably well with Xvideo output, but XvMC is not a go with stable drivers yet.
-NVIDIA: don't have one, cannot tell you. Sorry.
-AMD/ATi: 690G and 740G/780G/790GX are well-supported with the proprietary drivers and the 690G and 740G work with the open-source "ati" driver with Xvideo. IIRC, the 780G and 790GX work with XvBA decode acceleration with the proprietary driver.

3) Does it make sense to go for on-board now, and hold off on the PCI-express graphics card until I get a digital TV or should I go for a low-end graphics card? It will likely be at least a year before I even consider purchasing a digital TV (not in the budget).

- Ben

I would actually suggest the opposite- you will want an add-in PCIe card for analog TV output as analog TV outputs are rare in integrated graphics boards but integrated graphics will work fine with a digital TV. You do not need to spend a bunch of money on a GPU as any PCIe NVIDIA or ATi GPU with a TV-out port is well-supported by the proprietary drivers and generally can be had for under $40.

[chiron80]

Follow-up question

Based on MU_Engineer's response, and additional research, it looks like I'm going to have to go with an add-in PCIe graphics card because integrated graphics don't have s-video ports.

The question now becomes ATI vs. nVIDIA.

I know that historically nVIDIA has been the obvious choice because they had better support in linux (including XvMC). However, many things are now making me think ATI is a better choice: 1) ATI's rapid binary driver release cycle and big improvements in their binary drivers, 2) New support for XvMC and Unified Video Decoder 2, 3) Lack of support for XvMC in newer nVIDIA cards, and 4) ATIs new support for open source driver development.

So, my question is: Has ATI succeeded in replacing nVIDIA as the best choice for a MythTV graphics card?

[Kano]

I think you live in a parallel universe, do you

1) i guess 90% of ati users would just laugh, look at Xserver 1.6 compatibility
2) XvMC with some tricks, but how to use UVD2?
3) GF8+ can use VDPAU, not only for MPEG2 but even H264 - on some rare cards with G98 even VC1.
4) Ok, thats a point, but only for the LOW END card series, do you want to buy a high end card and use only 10% of it's speed?

[MU_Engineer]

Based on MU_Engineer's response, and additional research, it looks like I'm going to have to go with an add-in PCIe graphics card because integrated graphics don't have s-video ports.

The question now becomes ATI vs. nVIDIA.

I know that historically nVIDIA has been the obvious choice because they had better support in linux (including XvMC). However, many things are now making me think ATI is a better choice: 1) ATI's rapid binary driver release cycle and big improvements in their binary drivers, 2) New support for XvMC and Unified Video Decoder 2, 3) Lack of support for XvMC in newer nVIDIA cards, and 4) ATIs new support for open source driver development.

So, my question is: Has ATI succeeded in replacing nVIDIA as the best choice for a MythTV graphics card?

It depends on what you want to do and how much fiddling around you want to do.

1. If you just want to play MPEG-2 stuff and want to do that right now, then pick up a GeForce 6200, 7200, or 7300 and use XvMC. Works out of the box with everything.

2. If you want to be able to use open-source drivers someday, pick up a Radeon 4350 or 4550 and use the fglrx drivers. You can use XvBA with the fglrx drivers to accelerate MPEG-2 via XvMC right now and should be able to accelerate MPEG-4/H.264 as well.

3. If you do not care about open- or closed-source drivers, either an NVIDIA 8400 or 9400 or a Radeon 4350 or 4550 will work and should work pretty much equally well and accelerate the same codecs.

4. If you want to use open-source drivers NOW and do not care about video decode acceleration, pick up an ATi x1000 series card like an x1300 as those have 2D and 3D video working with the Xorg open-source drivers. None of NVIDIA's cards has anything but the crippled 2D-only nv open-source driver. I can play video well with my x1900GT using the open-source driver and XVideo, the only problem is that the CPU does all of the decode work.

[Nipa]

drivers and will work reasonably

current drivers and XvMC works. However, the video quality is often pretty "meh." Newer chipsets like the G31/33/35 and G41/43/45 are mostly supported by the drivers and will work reasonably well with Xvideo output, but XvMC is not a go with stable drivers yet.
-NVIDIA: don't have one, cannot tell you. Sorry.
-AMD/ATi: 690G and 740G/780G/790GX are well-supported with the proprietary drivers and the 690G and 740G work with the open-source "ati" driver with Xvideo. IIRC, the 780G and 790GX work with XvBA decode acceleration with the proprietary driver.

[Kano]

XvMC did not really work well using Xine as VDR frontend. VDPAU works much better, but for cutting I usually still use XV as it seems there is a tiny delay when you use it.

[SyXbiT]

don't make the mistake I made a few months ago

buy what is best NOW
buying ATI cause you think it'll be better in 6 months would be a mistake.
ATI is improving, but so is Nvidia.
Nvidia is better now, so buy that.
If in a year ATI is better, they buy one, but don't buy on the false pretence that ATI will just magically improve. You'll regret it

[sohel]

gaming performance.

gaming performance. My primary focus for this new computer is to get a working MythTV setup, but the computer will also be used for general server use (file server, mail server, web server, etc.). I don't plan on using the computer for general desktop use but I may in the future (I use my laptop for most web surfing, document editing, programming, etc)