The Future Direction & Purpose Of Wayland's Weston Is Being Revisited

[gufide]

Patience is the key guys. We had millions LOC to make compatible with wayland. We had to remove all the hacks we made. We had to rethink how everything work. We worked hard 6 years to make it so. Why? Because we know that will wayland, linux desktop will shine, and we will stop borthering ourself with low performances, hacks, bugs of all sort. We will finally work to make our DE and apps better with a better code and performance and without the X bottleneck. Company like Microsoft can't affort to do something like this. The linux desktop can. Wait another year of developpement maximum and we will get full GNOME and Plasma on Walyand. We are close. Patience is the key guys.

[dh04000]

Core Wayland Protocol has been set in stone and pretty much 'done' for a long time. Everything past that, everything being worked on now are things that are 'nice to have' and even very usable but not absolutely required to get graphics on the screen. Such as the security extension, the relative pointer patches and other stuff.

Some of us consider the need for security, a pointer on the screen, and minimize support to be essential and not just "cool" extras...

[yakman2020]

So the bottleneck isn't so much the compositor (done long ago, really), so much as the toolkits and window managers that need to be re-written (Gtk, etc)?

In other words, we are actually past the "wayland" implementation part of the exercise and are into the adoption part?

[daniels]

BTW the worrying part in Pekkas email is that the maintenance/review/etc of Wayland ends up going through one person only and with no official corporate support.

Um, apart from how Collabora sponsors the vast majority of work from Pekka, myself, Jonny, Emilio, Fred, Tomeu, etc; Red Hat similarly for Marek, Peter, Hans, and formerly Jasper (now Endless); Jolla for Giulio; Samsung for Derek and Bryce; Intel for Jason and Kristian; etc etc, ad nauseum.

[gufide]

So the bottleneck isn't so much the compositor (done long ago, really), so much as the toolkits and window managers that need to be re-written (Gtk, etc)?

In other words, we are actually past the "wayland" implementation part of the exercise and are into the adoption part?

The toolkit, window managers into compositors, shells, and applications, because some application are using Xlib to talk directly to the server.
Compositors aren't done yet (kwin) and gnome could be more polished.
Toolkits are done.
Apps are not all done
Shells are pretty much the last big part.

Oh another thing!

DE must support Xwayland, because there are apps that will never get updated.

[johnc]

After all these years of development just imagine how much legacy code and cruft Wayland has taken on.

I think we're due to replace Wayland with something newer.

[gufide]

After all these years of development just imagine how much legacy code and cruft Wayland has taken on.

I think we're due to replace Wayland with something newer.

you made my day sir

It is true that it's really really long, but it will worth a lot at the end.

[Ericg]

Oh god, I forgot that was even a thing...

Just like Wayland, we've been waiting since 2008 for it to be "about a year or two away".

Still waiting....

SUSE is recommending it as default installation filesystem. There's not going to be a magical day when BTRFS is considered "ready." You look at it, you decide whether you want to try it, you try it. If you have a good experience then you keep using it, if you don't then you go back to Ext4 or XFS and try again in another year or whenever. But there won't be some like mythical green light that gets flipped on one day.

[gufide]

Some of us consider the need for security, a pointer on the screen, and minimize support to be essential and not just "cool" extras...

Minimize is here for a long time. it is here in gnome and kwin. gnome seems to put the implementation in very low priority as they don't want us to minimize window, even in X.
Kwin minimize is here for a long time, and the implementation in wayland will not differ that much, it will just be without the X hacks wi did to get the result. (yes minimizing in X needs hack, kwin break minimization in order to get a simple thing as window previews!)

[Ericg]

Some of us consider the need for security, a pointer on the screen, and minimize support to be essential and not just "cool" extras...

You obviously don't have a clue what any of those things are if that was your response....

Wayland is secure by default. No app can fsck with another's buffers. MY security comment was about the sandboxing and 'portals', or whatever they are called, support.

Wayland can put a pointer on a screen perfectly fine, hell even proper acceleration is being worked out thanks to libinput. My comment was about the relative pointer patch that Michael wrote about recently that has a big benefit for games.

Minimize support is not in Weston and probably (though not assuredly) never will be since Weston is meant to be a reference implementation for all platforms and different form factors have different ideas of what minimization entails. For desktop and laptop users XDG-Shell has minimization support working (AFAIK) which is what you'll be using if youre running Gnome or KDE and possibly Enlightenment (dont know for sure for Enlightenment)