openSUSE Factory & Tumbleweed Are Merging

[Guest]

My only issues with openSUSE stem from packages/updating.

With updating, I'm confused as to whether I should use zypper up or zypper dup. From what I hear, dup should never be used unless explicitly told to, but I'm not sure why. Using dup on a fresh install downloads more updates than up, and last I checked, dup also installed what looked like important packages, like some firmware thing, and I think a kde-pure package.

On Ubuntu, I usually always do dist-upgrade, and haven't ran into any issues at all.

Un-selecting software during installation was also a bit strange. I could uncheck a bunch of software, and it wouldn't be installed (which is fine), but when installing some unrelated package, all the software I unchecked would want to be installed all of a sudden (so if I didn't install LibreOffice and Firefox, zypper would want to install them whenever I would try to install wine later).

[wyrms]

Hola??

Perdonen mi habla espa?ola, pero lo hago ya que si usan un traductor sea lo mas fiel la traducci?n.

No entiendo el mal que se le hace a openSUSE, cuando para mi es la distro por referencia en linux.
Es la ?nica que no necesita consola para manejara, es la que ayuda al usuario, las ramas factoy son estables, y hasta creo que se deber?an de crear en phoronix test a base de ella.

El hablar mal de ella es no conocerla, es estable, innovadora y no fallos nada en ella.

Veo mucha gente hablar mal de ella y tambi?n veo no tener ni idea de ella.

Muchos deber?ais aprender de ella.

Un saludo.

[andyprough]

Veo mucha gente hablar mal de ella y tambi?n veo no tener ni idea de ella.

Muchos deber?ais aprender de ella.

S?, opensuse se debe dar la oportunidad.

[Luke_Wolf]

My only issues with openSUSE stem from packages/updating.

With updating, I'm confused as to whether I should use zypper up or zypper dup. From what I hear, dup should never be used unless explicitly told to, but I'm not sure why. Using dup on a fresh install downloads more updates than up, and last I checked, dup also installed what looked like important packages, like some firmware thing, and I think a kde-pure package.

On Ubuntu, I usually always do dist-upgrade, and haven't ran into any issues at all.

Un-selecting software during installation was also a bit strange. I could uncheck a bunch of software, and it wouldn't be installed (which is fine), but when installing some unrelated package, all the software I unchecked would want to be installed all of a sudden (so if I didn't install LibreOffice and Firefox, zypper would want to install them whenever I would try to install wine later).

Well, here's the question do you have anything besides the basic repo set and packman enabled? If yes don't use zypper dup, it finds the absolute latest packages in all repos of what you have installed and tries to upgrade to them, if not then you're fine. General rule is to just use zypper up though.

if you want to switch your packages to ones from a certain repo there is still a use for zypper dup though

zypper dup --from=repoName

but it's better to just use YaST's packagemanager for that IMO.

[adler187]

My only issues with openSUSE stem from packages/updating.

With updating, I'm confused as to whether I should use zypper up or zypper dup. From what I hear, dup should never be used unless explicitly told to, but I'm not sure why. Using dup on a fresh install downloads more updates than up, and last I checked, dup also installed what looked like important packages, like some firmware thing, and I think a kde-pure package.

On Ubuntu, I usually always do dist-upgrade, and haven't ran into any issues at all.

Un-selecting software during installation was also a bit strange. I could uncheck a bunch of software, and it wouldn't be installed (which is fine), but when installing some unrelated package, all the software I unchecked would want to be installed all of a sudden (so if I didn't install LibreOffice and Firefox, zypper would want to install them whenever I would try to install wine later).

zypper up (update) will update installed packages only if there are new versions from the repository that the currently installed package is from. zypper dup (dist-upgrade) will update all packages to the newest version available from *any* repository.

Practical example: Let's say I have dolphin installed on openSUSE 13.1 and add the KDE:Current repository, doing a zypper se -s shows this

v | dolphin                            | package    | 4.14.2-1.2     | x86_64 | KDE 4 Current
v | dolphin                            | package    | 4.11.5-474.8   | x86_64 | openSUSE-13.1-Update
v | dolphin                            | package    | 4.11.4-460.22  | x86_64 | openSUSE-13.1-Update
i | dolphin                            | package    | 4.11.3-50.7    | x86_64 | openSUSE-13.1-Update
v | dolphin                            | package    | 4.11.2-1.1     | x86_64 | openSUSE-13.1-Oss

If I do a "zypper up dolphin", it will install dolphin-4.11.5-474.8 from openSUSE-13.1-Update, since dolphin is currently installed from that repository. If I then do another "zypper up dolphin", it will say that there are no new versions available. If I do a "zypper dup" (you can't specify a specific package here), it will install dolphin-4.14.2-1.2 from KDE 4 Current, since that is newer than 4.11.5-474.8. Normally you will want to just do a "zypper up", but when adding a new repository (like KDE:Current) to update an already installed package, you will need to do a "zypper dup". You can also upgrade from one version to the next this way, by adding the new repositories for openSUSE 13.2 when it comes out and doing a "zypper dup".

Be careful with a "zypper dup", however. Sometimes you add a repository for one package, but the repository also has other software in it that you may not want to upgrade at that time. In that case, "zypper up" works ok, because it won't change repositories, but "zypper dup" will. You can get around this by doing a "zypper in package-version" to specifically install a certain package (eg. "zypper in dolphin-4.14.2-1.2"), but this may not work if it needs to pull in updated packages across repositories. You can also add locks to the software that you want to prevent from being upgraded or modified when doing a "zypper dup". zypper has a good man page if you want more information.

As to your last comment, I have no idea why zypper would require LibreOffice/Firefox to be installed and I can't find any dependencies that would be between them.

[adler187]

Basic repository also fragmented with illogical labeling (oss, non-oss, src-oss, src-nonoss, update, debug, and so on).

Seems pretty logical to me: oss contains Open Source Software, non-oss contains non-Open Source Software. Those are really the only two you need (and Packman if you want stuff that is patent encumbered and things that openSUSE can't have in their repositories for various reasons...) There's also update and update-non-oss, which are security and bugfix updates to the main packages.

The others are not needed by the majority of people and are split from the rest so as to reduce ftp mirror burden:
debug - contains debuging symbols for packages, useful for debugging or providing useful stack traces when submitting bugs
debug-update and debug-update-non-oss - contain debug symbols for packages from update and update-non-oss, respectively
source - contains srpm source packages for packages in oss.

[Slartifartblast]

Piece of crap distro, that just confirmed that I personally switched from it.
Ugly configuration - multiple windows with progress bars and two buttons.
Use of alot of memory.
Scattered repositories.
Basic repository also fragmented with illogical labeling (oss, non-oss, src-oss, src-nonoss, update, debug, and so on).
Outdated packages in non-tumbleweed.
Broken tumbleweed.
Absence of codecs and many essential software in basic repository.
Idiotic package manager - poorly documented, very function limited, unprofessional (double-Ctrl-C: "Ok, ok, I am quiting", wtf OK-OK)
A lot of bugs, like not cleaning of /tmp !!!

By merging tumbleweed(*) with factory(*) - they basically destroyed the only positive - they loose to Mint(non-rolling) and Manjaro(rolling, acceptable, cutting edge).
* - wtf this naming, why not call it "testing" and "unstable", or "rolling" and "unstable" - or anything of SANE. Is this building of robots(factory) and desert (tumbleweed)??


The ugliest distro in non-esthetical way, that I ever used. Gentoo is many times better than this.
If you use Opensuse, just drop it and switch to Manjaro and likes.
At least those do the thing, easy to configure, have latest packages, truly roll and its devs can be easy contacted to help with fixing.

Yea, whatever.

[alcalde]

As to your last comment, I have no idea why zypper would require LibreOffice/Firefox to be installed and I can't find any dependencies that would be between them.

What I think may be going on is that the poster is installing from the live image. Unlike the DVD, not everything can fit in that image and thus after the install YaST has marked to install the things that weren't copied over during the live install. It will install them during the first update or use of the package manager,

[wyrms]

Piece of crap distro, that just confirmed that I personally switched from it.
Ugly configuration - multiple windows with progress bars and two buttons.
Use of alot of memory.
Scattered repositories.
Basic repository also fragmented with illogical labeling (oss, non-oss, src-oss, src-nonoss, update, debug, and so on).
Outdated packages in non-tumbleweed.
Broken tumbleweed.
Absence of codecs and many essential software in basic repository.
Idiotic package manager - poorly documented, very function limited, unprofessional (double-Ctrl-C: "Ok, ok, I am quiting", wtf OK-OK)
A lot of bugs, like not cleaning of /tmp !!!

By merging tumbleweed(*) with factory(*) - they basically destroyed the only positive - they loose to Mint(non-rolling) and Manjaro(rolling, acceptable, cutting edge).
* - wtf this naming, why not call it "testing" and "unstable", or "rolling" and "unstable" - or anything of SANE. Is this building of robots(factory) and desert (tumbleweed)??


The ugliest distro in non-esthetical way, that I ever used. Gentoo is many times better than this.
If you use Opensuse, just drop it and switch to Manjaro and likes.
At least those do the thing, easy to configure, have latest packages, truly roll and its devs can be easy contacted to help with fixing.

Usted deber?a aprender a usarla y el porque de las cosas, antes de criticar, no hay codec por las licencias, y los repositorios igual, por licencias.
Cuando aprenda a manejarla venga a criticarla.

Un saludo