Originally posted by MadeUpName
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Netflix Now Exploring AVIF For Image Compression
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All it says it that Nokia allow using their patents for free with this implementation, but that doesn't mean those are the only patents attached? Given MPEG history, I'm not sure this is enough.
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Originally posted by MadeUpName View PostIs there actually any thing in a container that is patentable? As far as I know a container is just cutting up a file space. Bits 0 - 20 contain X, bits 21-45 contain Y etc. If that is all it is, it isn't patentable material even in a country with as F'd up of a patent system as the US.
Nokia Technologies Ltd (“Nokia”) hereby grants to you a non-sublicensable, perpetual, worldwide,
non-exclusive, no-charge, royalty-free, irrevocable (except as stated in this license) license,
under its copyrights and Licensed Patents only to, use, run, modify (in a way that still complies
with the Specification), and copy the Software within the Licensed Field. For the avoidance of
doubt the Licensed Patents shall not include Codec Patents.
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Well, Netflix alone isn't enough to adapt a JPEG replacement. So hopefully some truly free format will emerge.
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Originally posted by shmerl View PostYeah, I know the difference. I'm not talking about MPEG-LA trolls, but about MPEG itself. They aren't simply accidentally pro-patenting. It's their core approach. One of their reps even complained, how he doesn't like the whole AOM development and movement to make video codecs royalty free.
If AOM succeeds it will show to everyone that MPEG isn't even necessary, that's why they are opposed to everything AOM stands for. Still MPEG saw that HEVC patent situation is something that can't happen again, so they are trying some different approaches regarding patents for VVC (forming an independent group of companies discussing patents before standard is finalized).
Originally posted by shmerl View PostAnyway, if HEIF is indeed free to use now, then great, but again, why even bother with MPEG formats which are always a suspect, let them take something from WebM like WebP did and etc.
Regarding WebM and WebP - WebM is based on Matroska, but WebP is a simple RIFF container, so they can't just take what WebP has. Would be interesting if they extended Matroska, but I don't think it's too bad that they took HEIF. Generally I must say AV1 developers seem to me to have quite low interest in AVIF.
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Is there actually any thing in a container that is patentable? As far as I know a container is just cutting up a file space. Bits 0 - 20 contain X, bits 21-45 contain Y etc. If that is all it is, it isn't patentable material even in a country with as F'd up of a patent system as the US.
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Originally posted by quikee View PostIt's not MPEG that slaps patents everywhere. Generally MPEG is just a engineering group, under which everybody is free to participate. The problem are the ISO rules under which they operate, prohibits them to dismiss something on any other than technological ground, so they can't dismiss something because it is patented and take something else. So a lot of companies send engineers to promote their patented technologies to the MPEG workshops, and the result is a standard which is heavily patented from a big bunch of companies.
MPEG-LA is then a separate thing - just a patent pool, which has no connection to MPEG except from the name and that the purpose is to pool patents from MPEG standards, but they aren't the only one.
Yeah, I know the difference. I'm not talking about MPEG-LA trolls, but about MPEG itself. They aren't simply accidentally pro-patenting. It's their core approach. One of their reps even complained, how he doesn't like the whole AOM development and movement to make video codecs royalty free.
Anyway, if HEIF is indeed free to use now, then great, but again, why even bother with MPEG formats which are always a suspect, let them take something from WebM like WebP did and etc.Last edited by shmerl; 16 February 2020, 03:38 PM.
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Originally posted by shmerl View PostI don't think that's correct though. Knowing MPEG, they slap patents on everything, including containers. So why even bother using theirs?
It's not MPEG that slaps patents everywhere. Generally MPEG is just a engineering group, under which everybody is free to participate. The problem are the ISO rules under which they operate, prohibits them to dismiss something on any other than technological ground, so they can't dismiss something because it is patented and take something else. So a lot of companies send engineers to promote their patented technologies to the MPEG workshops, and the result is a standard which is heavily patented from a big bunch of companies.
MPEG-LA is then a separate thing - just a patent pool, which has no connection to MPEG except from the name and that the purpose is to pool patents from MPEG standards, but they aren't the only one.
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Originally posted by skierpage View PostFrom that Wikpedia article: "HEIF itself is a container, and when containing images and image sequences encoded in a particular format (e.g., HEVC or H.264/AVC) its use becomes subject to the licensing of patents on the coding format". The implication is the container format itself isn't patented.
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Originally posted by shmerl View PostIsn't HEIF container patent encumbered? It was developed by MPEG. So this development doesn't sound good to me. There should be free containers for that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_E...ge_File_Format
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