Don't Want systemd? Try GNU Hurd, But It Still Lacks 64-bit, Audio & USB

[eduperez]

In my opinion people should not be forced to leave Linux if doesn't like systemd, and that is the root of the trouble with systemd, they force you to use it cause some devs like Gnome KDE want to use some systemd features, or they say make your own implementation of x feature to run it. From the developer POV is ok, they are free to use systemd dependency but from the user side it looks like a imposement, from the POV of distro maintainers and package mantainers is a imposement, a requeriment to run X or Y software, wich leds him to use it to have some software but that could make some of his users unhappy and leave the distro. Linux is maintained by coorporations as well systemd, which tends to look like a Corporation software and it's heading the course of linux, which is fine cause Coorps maintain linux while Linus is getting fat every day giving some talks around the globe and gives a shit. This is a contradiction to people saying that Linux is free of the evil hands of coorps like MS, cause not. Linux is just another corp product and people doesn't know that. So use GNU HURD is a good idea, but just to not be folished by the "freedom" of Linux.

In my opinion, developers should not be forced to continue working on sysv init if others do not like systemd, and that is the root of the trouble with users complaining about systemd, they force you to continue working on it because some users dislike some systemd features, or they say...

You do not like systemd, fine; just do not install any distro that uses systemd, period. But, please, do not expect others to maintain and update that distro for you.

[plonoma]

Having alternatives for systemd developed would be more constructive than complaining.
Would be very good to have alternatives such as GNU Hurd to get more attention and development power behind them.

[phrx_reader]

A real GNU system does not use systemd, be it Linux, Hurd or something else

Having alternatives for systemd developed would be more constructive than complaining.
Would be very good to have alternatives such as GNU Hurd to get more attention and development power behind them.

Take a look at GNU Guix for package management and GNU dmd for init.

GNU/Linux is in the works and GNU/Hurd (i.e. GNU) will follow:

http://www.gnu.org/software/dmd/

http://www.gnu.org/software/guix/

[asdfblah]

In my opinion, developers should not be forced to continue working on sysv init if others do not like systemd, and that is the root of the trouble with users complaining about systemd, they force you to continue working on it because some users dislike some systemd features, or they say...

You do not like systemd, fine; just do not install any distro that uses systemd, period. But, please, do not expect others to maintain and update that distro for you.

And I thought that that was the job of distro maintainers.
Well, I think we should start a campaign to tell distro maintainers to stop supporting GNOME, because it's such a burden to them and everyone else... What a ugly, useless piece of crap.

[interested]

And I thought that that was the job of distro maintainers.

That is exactly the point; the vast majority of distro maintainers and Linux users want systemd, and have no intention of using or supporting legacy init-systems like SysVinit.

It is therefore up to those who don't want to use systemd to make and support their non-systemd distros.

[duby229]

That is exactly the point; the vast majority of distro maintainers and Linux users want systemd, and have no intention of using or supporting legacy init-systems like SysVinit.

It is therefore up to those who don't want to use systemd to make and support their non-systemd distros.

And what that requires doing is a whole bunch of forks.

Just look at history. A ton of successful forks happened because of significant anti-userbase sentiment from the original team. In a bunch of cases where forks don't work, it's because the fork split the talent pool and both teams suffered.

Sometimes forks have to happen, maybe this is one of them.

[asdfblah]

That is exactly the point; the vast majority of distro maintainers and Linux users want systemd, and have no intention of using or supporting legacy init-systems like SysVinit.

It is therefore up to those who don't want to use systemd to make and support their non-systemd distros.

What's your source for that claim? Did you do a poll or something? Otherwise, you are just talking bullshit.

[interested]

And what that requires doing is a whole bunch of forks.

Yes; forks or new programs with adequate alternative functionality, or just maintaining existing programs. The non-systemd people should have started on such projects years ago. As it is now, they have lost so many users, distros and developers, that it will be a struggle just to have reasonable non-systemd functionality.

Just look at history. A ton of successful forks happened because of significant anti-userbase sentiment from the original team. In a bunch of cases where forks don't work, it's because the fork split the talent pool and both teams suffered.

Sometimes forks have to happen, maybe this is one of them.

I think the realisation that somebody needs to do work in order for a non-systemd distros to be viable option in the future, is a crucial insight that should have been reached years ago among the anti-systemd people.

To say it frankly, there are interesting lessons to be learned from how badly the anti-systemd people have fumbled their campaign.

[duby229]

Yes; forks or new programs with adequate alternative functionality, or just maintaining existing programs. The non-systemd people should have started on such projects years ago. As it is now, they have lost so many users, distros and developers, that it will be a struggle just to have reasonable non-systemd functionality.




I think the realisation that somebody needs to do work in order for a non-systemd distros to be viable option in the future, is a crucial insight that should have been reached years ago among the anti-systemd people.

To say it frankly, there are interesting lessons to be learned from how badly the anti-systemd people have fumbled their campaign.

And here we go again. Another systemd zealot using the lack of available programmers with the skill to take on such huge tasks as a crutch to use in arguments against a userbase.

I hope you don't expect you're entire userbase to be world class programmers. I hate to say it, but you're going to be shit out of luckl.

[interested]

What's your source for that claim? Did you do a poll or something? Otherwise, you are just talking bullshit.

This is from the basic fact that all major (and many minor) Linux distros have changed to systemd (without any loss of users).

Debian is the best example on how the anti-systemd crowd is just a tiny but vocal minority; after thousands of posts about the Debians new init-system, that some interpreted that Debian was split, there was a GR; The vast majority of the voting Debian developers backed the Debian technical committee's decision to use systemd as the default init-system, and the developers clearly said that they didn't want no obligations whatsoever to support any other init-system. In fact, the anti-systemd people couldn't even find 5 Debian developers out of 1000 that would sponsor a GR to overturn the Debian technical committees decision to use systemd as default. So it turned out that the anti-systemd people was just a tiny minority, despite the huge on-line fighting going on on "debian-devel" and "debian-user".

The point is, that even among conservative distros like Debian, the majority of those working on it wants systemd. And why not? systemd is clearly superior to any existing alternative.

Another strong indicator on how tiny the anti-systemd group is, is how few developers that are working on non-systemd infrastructure. Core infrastructure stuff like ConsoleKit was unmaintained for years with nobody stepping up to maintain it. Same with all the DE's; nobody from the anti-systemd group is helping them making those DE's work in a modern fashion on non-systemd distros.
The only thing Gnome and KDE get from the non-systemd group is massive abuse and whining conspiracy accusations.

In fact, the entire non-systemd developer eco-system is in a sad state with little work being done.