X.Org Is Looking For Some Female Help

[daniels]

This is why we give equal opportunities for anyone to join, and the best people for the job (ie, the most qualified people with interest) get the gig.

The underprovision of successful female role models in IT is a part of what denies women and girls that opportunity. They'll look up and see an entirely male-dominated industry, and even if subconsciously, feel that it's not an industry they fit in, and the horrible misogyny in this thread only reinforces that.

[89c51]

The majority of men don't have a happy time coding, either. Do you have any evidence that women are inherently less interested in coding than men? Do you have any evidence women "are unwilling to give it away for free as many people do in FOSS"? Ever considered the possibility that women simply don't feel as welcome in open-source communities.

If you are wondering why, reading this thread might give you some hints. Just look at axero telling them that their proper place is in the home.

Don't you see the percentage of man vs women in the Computer industry or the nursing "industry" to get an idea on what percentage of men or women are attracted to/interested in?

And feel welcome??? Really. Has any women ever submitted a proper patch in any project and was rejected due to gender?

As for the giving it away for free i was wrong. I suspect that the percentage of people that will volunteer into something is about the same but because women are far less in the computer industry it is normal to have less women in FOSS projects.

[daniels]

If you are looking to hire females, you discriminate men.
If you pay women in their 20's the same as men, you are discriminating men.
Ask some managers, they probably won't admit it publicly, but these guys (or women) have to factor in chance
that female employee will get pregnant and you will have to find replacement (and in most european countries you will also have to pay her maternity leave in full for up to 2 years).
Companies often pay women the same as men to avoid being labeled as 'sexists', but in fact, this discriminates male employees.
Yes I have opinions, No I wouldn't complain at work (since I would be labeled as sexist and possibly fired).

In Europe, you'd probably get fired, yes, because that is flat-out illegal and has been for a very long time. Welcome to the 1970s!

[daniels]

Even in those large-production superhero movies it is common to see scenes where women are acting disrespectful against the highly regarded superheroes. And the audience sure picks up on those cues.

Because you never see men being disrespectful to anyone in movies ... right. But yep, women should know their place and never speak their minds. Equality!

[Isedonde]

I know many business owners. Having to pay someone a year's wages without getting any work out of them during that time would kill most startups, they simply cannot afford that.

This is a problem. From that perspective, it's economically stupid to hire a woman.

Is there any reason why the government can't pay the mother's wage (limited to some amount and only during the time when she can't work due to pregnancy), and then when the child is born, pay either the mother or the father until the child is old enough to go to day-care?

Forcing businesses to pay their employees when they can't work seems a little strange to me. In Germany, employers must pay their employees even when they are sick for six weeks, and then again for six weeks for the same illness after six months have passed (or even earlier if it's a different disease). I wonder why this is not something paid for by tax money. I mean, tax money is spent on all kinds of useless things, while this tax money "investment opportunity" appears to be quite useful. To prevent discrimination related to job offerings, I think it's important to establish that businesses only have to pay for their workers when they actually do work. For wellfare, there's tax payers' money. Raise taxes if it's not enough.


At the same time, I think it's a nice idea to have a law that prevents businesses from firing a mother just because she's pregnant and won't come to work for the next year (just like a father who wants to leave for some time to care for his baby). So when the baby is old enough, the mother should be allowed to return to her old job. The employer can hopefully find someone to replace the mother/father for the time being, using a time-limited contract.

[smitty3268]

because women are far less in the computer industry it is normal to have less women in FOSS projects.

No one is attempting to radically change society here, although judging by this thread...

All this hysteria is over adding a single internship opportunity. There will still be fewer women than men in FOSS projects even if it's filled.

[gutigen]

If that was really all it took, we wouldn't be having this discussion. The problem is that, in reality, that open-source communities have done a lot to make female contributors unwelcome. The way you chose to phrase that sentence is symptomatic of the problem.

There are two issues here:

a) one I've mentioned - complete disrespect to women by putting them in inferior position
b) limiting potential workforce to only one gender can hurt the project

As for open source communities making women unwelcome, I agree it has to be addressed, but we also have to take into consideration those two issues above. Maybe instead of trying to ask for female contributors (which every self-respecting women should be offended by), go to schools and try educating new breed of IT people from all genders and races?

Also those open source projects you mention will stay the same, cause you can't change how 30+ sexist guy feels about women. Schools is where this women outreach programs should focus, but with different narration, drop feminist propaganda and focus on promoting IT to everyone - women/girls/men/boys/straight/gay/transgender/transsexual/black/white/yellow/brown/red/green/blue etc all will come aboard aswell cause our society is getting more and more technically advanced and IT is no longer for geeks, but something respected and often trendy.

[caligula]

What? Equal pay for equal work is discrimination against men?

It's not equal pay if one works for 4 years full time, the other works for 2 years full + 2 years taking care of babies. And you need to hire some other guy to do the work (and if you're unlucky, this other guy is also a woman who decides to have babies => you also need to pay a third one to do the job). Also, statistically women work less (in work hours). If you have a fixed monthly salary, it's discriminating against those who work more hours.

[TheBlackCat]

Don't you see the percentage of man vs women in the Computer industry or the nursing "industry" to get an idea on what percentage of men or women are attracted to/interested in?

It is indicative of how many are attracted to the industry as it currently is. It isn't indicative of how many would be attracted to it if the problems we were discussing didn't exist. The very fact that the industry, and many others, have undergone such drastic shifts in demographics over time demonstrates that.

And feel welcome??? Really. Has any women ever submitted a proper patch in any project and was rejected due to gender?

Right, because the only way you could possibly make someone feel unwelcome is by rejecting a patch.

[caligula]

Cool! I'll tell that to all the women with a PhD in computer science there are in my CS lab. And trust me, there are more than 10 and they all kick asses!

It's just statistics. When I studied computer engineering, only around 2% of students were female. And that 2% meant more or less one new female person per year. I only saw one women giving courses in the CS/CE department. However she also got pregnant.