3K Lines Of New Rust Infrastructure Code Head Into Linux 6.13

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  • ssokolow
    Senior Member
    • Nov 2013
    • 5096

    #11
    Originally posted by edxposed View Post
    Hopefully there won't be any really valuable rust-only features until rust is actually fully stabilized. The current rust is a toy, you can't even build it with the latest or slightly older rust toolchain, and it even restricts C toolchain versions (LTO/CFI).
    Apple Silicon GPU drivers aren't "really valuable"?

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    • ssokolow
      Senior Member
      • Nov 2013
      • 5096

      #12
      Originally posted by Old Grouch View Post
      One of the challenges with Rust, as I see it, is that there is currently no formal specification of the language.
      Funny enough, the overwhelming majority of people I see pointing to formal specification are C or C++ programmers arguing in bad faith because they see it as a threat to the perceived value of the skills they've tied their sense of self-worth to and just want to put roadblocks in the way.

      Now, Rust getting specified to a level that C and C++ are not and never will never be because of politics between the various implementers? Yes, I'm all for that... but don't throw stones from glass houses swiss-cheese'd with holes labelled "implementation defined".

      ...especially when what the Linux kernel is currently written in (GNU C11 plus reliance on various GCC-specific ANSI C "implementation defined" decisions that Clang copied) isn't formally specified either.
      Last edited by ssokolow; 26 November 2024, 10:06 AM.

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      • edxposed
        Senior Member
        • Jan 2023
        • 316

        #13
        Originally posted by intelfx View Post
        I can build mainline with the latest gcc-15 (master) or clang-20 (main) without any problem, so can you build any rust module on mainline with 1.85.0-nightly?

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        • intelfx
          Senior Member
          • Jun 2018
          • 1131

          #14
          Originally posted by Old Grouch View Post
          One of the challenges with Rust, as I see it, is that there is currently no formal specification of the language.

          Now, one can say that 'the documentation is the code', and ultimately, that is the truth, but it is a little difficult to work with. Formal specifications matter if you are trying to validate multiple compilers, or determine if behaviour is correctly implemented.

          It also increases the challenge of attempting proofs of formal correctness of code.
          You probably meant to say "a standard". Neither C nor C++ have a "formal specification" in general usage, and the world seems pretty unfazed by that.

          But anyway, having a standard is not an end in itself. It is because C and C++ languages were historically implemented as a pile of independent and mostly proprietary compilers, they needed a standard. Not the other way around.

          When a language, like Rust, is developed from day 1 with a free/libre implementation that's simultaneously the reference implementation and the production implementation, any need for a standard is greatly diminished.

          Now, this does not preclude the potential need for a formal specification. But that's a very different story (and one which is already being worked on).
          Last edited by intelfx; 26 November 2024, 02:31 PM.

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          • Britoid
            Senior Member
            • Jul 2013
            • 2167

            #15
            Originally posted by uid313 View Post
            Which part or subsystem of the Linux kernel would like the most to see adopt Rust?

            Is it graphics device drivers? or the network stack? or is it file systems? ext4 or Btrfs or a brand-new one? Perhaps the CPU scheduler or the I/O scheduler?
            None of it, make a new kernel.

            having an alternative to Linux would be far better than making a hodge podge kernel full of language politics.

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            • Britoid
              Senior Member
              • Jul 2013
              • 2167

              #16
              Originally posted by ssokolow View Post

              Apple Silicon GPU drivers aren't "really valuable"?
              They're a toy unless they get official backing or support from Apple themselves.

              Comment

              • ssokolow
                Senior Member
                • Nov 2013
                • 5096

                #17
                Originally posted by Britoid View Post

                Linux is a toy unless they get official backing or support from Microsoft themselves.
                FTFY, given that UEFI runs PE-format executables, not ELF. (Luckily, Linux stopped being a toy by your standards once Microsoft decided to get into the cloud-hosting game with Azure because so many people were already running the toy and wanted part of that action.)

                Oh, wouldja lookit that. Microsoft also cares enough about Rust that they donate Azure time for its giant regression/conformance suite that runs on every push.

                Comment

                • skeevy420
                  Senior Member
                  • May 2017
                  • 8633

                  #18
                  Originally posted by Volta View Post

                  Not only this. LWN became rust propagandistic tube. I bet rust woke foundation is paying them.
                  Y'all are upset that a Linux Tech Site that writes articles that cover practically every kernel commit as well as advancements in programming languages reported on a kernel commit that helps to advance a programming language. There are three different articles today that are about various Linux 6.13 features. Those are sponsored content from the Woke Linux Foundation

                  Comment

                  • skeevy420
                    Senior Member
                    • May 2017
                    • 8633

                    #19
                    Originally posted by Vorpal View Post
                    Could we just have a civilised discussion? For once? Please?
                    I assume you spell "color" as "colour". I know that because you spelled it "civilised". It's spelled "civilized". If you were civilized you'd know that. Well, technically, "it's" is spelled "it's".

                    Comment

                    • ssokolow
                      Senior Member
                      • Nov 2013
                      • 5096

                      #20
                      Originally posted by skeevy420 View Post

                      Y'all are upset that a Linux Tech Site that writes articles that cover practically every kernel commit as well as advancements in programming languages reported on a kernel commit that helps to advance a programming language. There are three different articles today that are about various Linux 6.13 features. Those are sponsored content from the Woke Linux Foundation

                      How about some music?

                      Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

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