Rust-Written Rustls Now Reportedly Outperforming OpenSSL & BoringSSL

[mobadboy]

You do, because if you didn't, you wouldn't have this opinion about Rust.

That's a silly argument.

So, if I was good with both a sharp rock and a chef's knife but understood (correctly) that a chef's knife is better for cutting onions because, among other reasons, it has a handle, I must be bad at using a sharp rock?

I really hope you aren't like this in person. Anyone with half a brain can see through your silly fallacies.

Rust is the future of systems programming whether your like it or not. Learn it while you can, or you'll be left behind in the past. C++ is still relevant, but there's no telling how long that will stay true.

[ssokolow]

WTF are you talking about? Rust is not less effort than a skilled C/C++ developer, in fact it's more because you have to please the borrow checker even in cases where you know it's correct (and don't start about you being wrong, we're talking a skilled dev here). If anything Rust is more effort, but gives noobs the feeling they got it right at least.

Stop embarrassing yourself. You're just making yourself look like a fool.

1. C++ devs who actually do know what they're talking about have repeatedly described Rust's rules as a codification of what is now considered best practice in C++ into a form the compiler can reliably check.
2. C++ devs who actually do know what they're talking about often say that something being difficult to get to pass borrow checking is a code smell and you should stop to think about whether you're really trying to implement a good design.
3. C++ devs who actually do know what they're talking about can always reach for unsafe in the situations where the compiler really can't check a reasonable design without losing the ability to encapsulate it and retain compile-time memory safety for the rest of the system.
4. C++ devs who actually do know what they're talking about often praise rustup and Cargo for being so much less hassle than reinventing them repeatedly using CMake, shell scripts, Conan/vcpkg, etc.
5. C++ devs who actually do know what they're talking about point out how, once their Rust projects compiled, they required little to no debugging compared to the norm for C++ projects, making the total time spent on Rust much lower.

That last one is a big one... but I'm guessing maybe you like C++ because it's somebody else's responsibility to QA and debug what you handed in as v1.0?

(I don't mention C because I don't believe in "systemd is wrong. If you need something sysvinit doesn't offer, your needs are invalid" arguments and, aside from basic structs, C effectively has no ability to declare custom data types while, aside from static, C has effectively no ability to encapsulate or enforce invariants. Arguing that making Rust code compile requires more skill than C is sort of like faulting motor vehicles for requiring a license to drive when bicycles don't.)

[Weasel]

Stop embarrassing yourself. You're just making yourself look like a fool.

Keep clowning yourself.

C++ devs who actually do know what they're talking about

They don't. None of the C++ devs that switched to Rust were good C++ devs, and I don't give a shit what you or they claim.

And for the record Mozilla's C++ source code is an absolute monstrosity (and it's full of needless macros too) which proves this point, period. You have no fucking idea what you're talking about so like I said, keep clowning yourself.

[Weasel]

That's a silly argument.

So, if I was good with both a sharp rock and a chef's knife but understood (correctly) that a chef's knife is better for cutting onions because, among other reasons, it has a handle, I must be bad at using a sharp rock?

I really hope you aren't like this in person. Anyone with half a brain can see through your silly fallacies.

The knife can't be Rust since Rust makes it more difficult to code something. A far better analogy would be like it's a dull knife for "safety reasons" so you don't cut yourself if you don't know how to handle a knife properly.

And C/C++ being an extremely sharp knife that, although it's far better at cutting, you also risk cutting yourself if you're unskilled.

That sounds much better indeed.

Rust is the future of systems programming whether your like it or not.

I've been hearing that for 10 years. I don't know if it's been that much, I lost track honestly.

Keep coping LOL.

[mobadboy]

The knife can't be Rust since Rust makes it more difficult to code something. A far better analogy would be like it's a dull knife for "safety reasons" so you don't cut yourself if you don't know how to handle a knife properly.

And C/C++ being an extremely sharp knife that, although it's far better at cutting, you also risk cutting yourself if you're unskilled.

That sounds much better indeed.

I've been hearing that for 10 years. I don't know if it's been that much, I lost track honestly.

Keep coping LOL.

ah ok

so when you are presented with arguments and reason, you escalate into name calling like a child

reflect on that sometime

maybe you are a child though... late teens? early 20s?

you will look back on this with shame

[ssokolow]

Keep clowning yourself.
They don't. None of the C++ devs that switched to Rust were good C++ devs, and I don't give a shit what you or they claim.

And for the record Mozilla's C++ source code is an absolute monstrosity (and it's full of needless macros too) which proves this point, period. You have no fucking idea what you're talking about so like I said, keep clowning yourself.

Nice "no true scotsman" fallacy... especially when it doesn't really matter if it's "good C++ devs" when what matters is "the kind of C++ devs there's an available supply of". If you want to write your own TempleOS in C++, feel free to. I'll be watching as companies who have spent a ton of time and money trying to hire/train "good C++ devs" keep migrating stuff to Rust because, in the real world, there either aren't enough "good C++ devs" to meet demand or they are only good when working in isolation.

I think I've given you enough rope to hang yourself in front of anyone who might be misled by your claims, so I'm out.

[Weasel]

ah ok

so when you are presented with arguments and reason, you escalate into name calling like a child

What the fuck are you saying? Everything you quoted was pure arguments, not a single name call. Good thing this is a public place where everyone can see YOU are the specimen name calling.

You should follow your advice and reflect on your bullshit.

[Weasel]

Nice "no true scotsman" fallacy... especially when it doesn't really matter if it's "good C++ devs" when what matters is "the kind of C++ devs there's an available supply of". If you want to write your own TempleOS in C++, feel free to. I'll be watching as companies who have spent a ton of time and money trying to hire/train "good C++ devs" keep migrating stuff to Rust because, in the real world, there either aren't enough "good C++ devs" to meet demand or they are only good when working in isolation.

I think I've given you enough rope to hang yourself in front of anyone who might be misled by your claims, so I'm out.

Spoken like a true theory crafted who I'm sure hasn't worked with Mozilla's code for even 1 hour.

Spare me your idealistic fantasies and keep coping to defend their decision (for Rust).

[ssokolow]

Spoken like a true theory crafted who I'm sure hasn't worked with Mozilla's code for even 1 hour.

Spare me your idealistic fantasies and keep coping to defend their decision (for Rust).

OK, fine. I'll bite again. Ahem...

Don't try to change the subject. When did I ever say anything about Mozilla's code?

If I'm referring to anyone, I'm talking about how Microsoft, Google, and Apple (all companies who have the budget and the incentive to hire or train skilled programmers) have all started incorporating Rust into their projects, and started producing articles like this: https://security.googleblog.com/2022...ndroid-13.html

...and, again, I'm not talking about your ability to use C++ to write a new TempleOS. I'm talking about what can bring down the bug rate in real-world situations where you're not in charge of who you have to share a codebase with.

[Weasel]

OK, fine. I'll bite again. Ahem...

Don't try to change the subject. When did I ever say anything about Mozilla's code?

Since they were one of the first ones to switch from C++ to Rust? So their reasoning is irrelevant.

If I'm referring to anyone, I'm talking about how Microsoft, Google, and Apple (all companies who have the budget and the incentive to hire or train skilled programmers) have all started incorporating Rust into their projects, and started producing articles like this: https://security.googleblog.com/2022...ndroid-13.html

...and who said those devs are quality? Hard to say for Microsoft or Apple, since they're mostly closed source, but I know people who saw Windows source code (either by working there or due to those infamous leaks) say it's a clusterfuck disaster, or something along those lines. There's your clue.

For Apple, you know there was the infamous "goto fail" security bug in iOS that didn't apply to the if because of no brace? That's enough to tell you the skill level of their C programmers. How the fuck did such shit pass review in the first place?

What else do you want? You link to logical fallacies (no true scotsman) but you're literally doing argument from authority because clearly you don't even bother to think if they have good coders or not (they likely don't).

...and, again, I'm not talking about your ability to use C++ to write a new TempleOS. I'm talking about what can bring down the bug rate in real-world situations where you're not in charge of who you have to share a codebase with.

Ok that's completely different than the original topic isn't it?

I mean yeah, Rust will likely bring down the bug rate, since most devs suck. But it's pure skill issue though. That is a fact.

Good thing the economy is going worse these days so those subpar noobs get laid off and only the quality ones remain. (nothing to do with programming language mind you, but the skill level of the dev itself)