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  • #31
    Originally posted by Alexmitter View Post
    The GPL does not just give freedom, it protects freedom for everyone, so that your code is a gift that keeps on giving.
    Yeah, you can think of it as limiting the freedom of immediate downstream contributors for the benefit of all those downstream of them. It's trading local restrictions for more freedom, globally.

    However, I think it's silly to moralize about open source licenses. They each have their benefits and drawbacks, and which appears best depends entirely on where you sit and what your goals are.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by LuukD View Post
      Coremark is the odd one out. Wonder what that is about.
      I think it's nearly impossible to implement a compiler optimization that delivers real gains without hurting at least a few benchmarks on at least a few platforms.

      It could be something like that Coremark was manually optimized in ways that it doesn't benefit from the optimization where it would help, but applying the optimization does create additional register pressure -> more spilling than before.

      Of course, that's just hypothetical. Obviously, any notable regressions should be studied to see if mitigations can be added for such cases.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by cl333r View Post

        What do you mean by "worse"? Legally? Financially? Choice wise not enough software?
        It was very unpopular at the time, back then (at least in America) proprietary software was seen as the go to, red hat was the exception that pushed things forward that the industry needed.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by coder View Post
          Yeah, you can think of it as limiting the freedom of immediate downstream contributors for the benefit of all those downstream of them. It's trading local restrictions for more freedom, globally.

          However, I think it's silly to moralize about open source licenses. They each have their benefits and drawbacks, and which appears best depends entirely on where you sit and what your goals are.
          Moralize model does make sense to work out why different choices are being made. If the downstream parties are not moral and will take open source work and proceeded to closed source it, monetise it and finally directly compete with the open source work so effect running it out of market a non copyleft license is not a good move. Yes companies willing todo the bad behavour generally is like disobey the basic old rule as well "Don't kill the goose that lays the gold egg" Yes the upstream open source project is normally the one laying the golden egg.

          One way copyleft is limiting freedom but in some areas of the market that limit freedom is very much like a general world laws of do not kill the project you are taking advantage of.

          If everyone in this world was 100% moral we would not need to punish people for murder. The reality is the world is morally imperfect.

          Lot of people who want to push the moral as the reason to use X license in the process forget we are living in a moral imperfect world. Depending on how morally imperfect the people you are dealing and your own moral standards with serous-ally alters your license choice.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by cl333r View Post
            What do you mean by "worse"? Legally? Financially? Choice wise not enough software?
            Legally

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            • #36
              Originally posted by jabl View Post
              Interesting, that hasn't really been my experience or for other people contributing to open source on company time I've read about.

              Same, I work on at an open source company where we have a process that lets you open source software and Apache 2 is our recommended license. GPL is only used when you are forced to do so (I.e. we recently open sourced a project that uses eBPF eith it's symbols)

              legally speaking every lawyer/legal department I have encountered in my career given the preference, would use Apache/MIT. If you are already in contributing to a GPL ecosystem than that is a different story, but you didn't have much choice to begin with.




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              • #37
                Originally posted by mdedetrich View Post
                legally speaking every lawyer/legal department I have encountered in my career given the preference, would use Apache/MIT. If you are already in contributing to a GPL ecosystem than that is a different story, but you didn't have much choice to begin with.
                https://itsfoss.com/fact-intel-minix-case/ MIT and like license have their issues. Why the preference can be important mdedetrich.

                Legal department can have a MIT license preference because they want to be licensing out companies patents on anyone who uses the source code.

                Apache is like because as long as correct attribution is given internal work of company may not have to be released.

                There are cases where different companies have chosen LGPL or GPL intentionally lot of cases like Qt with dual license setups.

                Most of the choice comes down to how company is planning on profit..


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                • #38
                  Originally posted by oiaohm View Post

                  https://itsfoss.com/fact-intel-minix-case/ MIT and like license have their issues. Why the preference can be important mdedetrich.

                  Legal department can have a MIT license preference because they want to be licensing out companies patents on anyone who uses the source code.

                  Apache is like because as long as correct attribution is given internal work of company may not have to be released.

                  There are cases where different companies have chosen LGPL or GPL intentionally lot of cases like Qt with dual license setups.
                  I am sorry but unless you are a lawyer your opinion is worth the amount of thought you made to write this post

                  Originally posted by oiaohm View Post
                  Most of the choice comes down to how company is planning on profit..

                  Wrong. Most of the choice comes down to these things

                  1. How much lawyers time you want to waste and how many complications are created
                  2. How much the decision opens you up to legal and hence monetary risk. The thing that most companies want to avoid at all costs is going into a lengthy legal battle.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by mdedetrich View Post
                    I am sorry but unless you are a lawyer your opinion is worth the amount of thought you made to write this post
                    Even then, it really depends on the quality of the lawyer. At one time, the IP lawyer in my company told us we couldn't use LGPL-licensed libraries, in our closed-source commercial product. I told him he'd better take another look, and he eventually came around to my point of view.

                    Granted, his main area was patents, rather than copyright. Still, such a blatant error can really cause a substantial loss in confidence.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by coder View Post
                      Even then, it really depends on the quality of the lawyer. At one time, the IP lawyer in my company told us we couldn't use LGPL-licensed libraries, in our closed-source commercial product. I told him he'd better take another look, and he eventually came around to my point of view.

                      Granted, his main area was patents, rather than copyright. Still, such a blatant error can really cause a substantial loss in confidence.
                      Sure as a one off you can be right, but as I said before what I am saying has been consistent over numerous companies in the career I have worked at, and these are copyright/IP lawyers.

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