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Fedora's Java Packages Have Fallen Into Rough Shape

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  • Fedora's Java Packages Have Fallen Into Rough Shape

    Phoronix: Fedora's Java Packages Have Fallen Into Rough Shape

    While many years ago Fedora's Java support was in great shape with quickly integrating OpenJDK going back to IcedTea, these days Fedora's Java packages are barely maintained and largely fallen into disrepair...

    https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...va-Rough-Shape

  • #2
    Huh... never used or trusted distro shipped java.
    Anyway it is not wise to develop and than ship with Java from different providers.

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    • #3
      Java in Fedora has really been dead for years so this is nothing new + Java needs to Die like Flash did

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      • #4
        Hmm.. so that explains why since recently switching to Fedora, my Java apps don't launch at all. Other distro's I've tried that have OpenJDK preinstalled (like Linux Mint and Opensuse) didn't have any problems with launching Java apps. If that's the situation, I don't think OpenJDK should be preinstalled in Fedora.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by user1 View Post
          Hmm.. so that explains why since recently switching to Fedora, my Java apps don't launch at all. Other distro's I've tried that have OpenJDK preinstalled (like Linux Mint and Opensuse) didn't have any problems with launching Java apps. If that's the situation, I don't think OpenJDK should be preinstalled in Fedora.
          I think the main problem with Java programs is there's no standard way to even launch them on Linux systems. For example locating all dependencies in distro specific places, and binding them requires non-standard bash code. All the work done in different distros will only complicate things.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Anvil View Post
            Java in Fedora has really been dead for years so this is nothing new + Java needs to Die like Flash did
            Eh. Flash was replaced with modern JS just like many other client side technologies. JVM is still one of the leading software platforms on the server side. C#/Mono isn't any better. Node.js/TS might come close, but still isn't the same. Rust/Wasm might become an alternative some day, but the maturity isn't quite the same. Heck most server distros won't even ship with any decent wasm runtime.

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            • #7
              I have never understood the way Linux distros handle java. Just package the openjdk and select apps or tools (e.g. maven, or minecraft, or whatever) and that's it. Why do you need to package individual libraries like guava and commons? That is utterly insane. In Java world every app bundles it's own dependencies. Nowadays there's even a trend of bundling a stripped-down minimalistic JRE together with the app. Packaging hundreds of java libs is a nonsensical waste of time. This is not a C/C++ world, where you must have just one version of stdlib (or whatever) installed in your system.

              Crying about the maintenance burden while at the same time packaging loads of unnecessary crap is ridiculous.

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              • #8
                Maybe they should take a look at Microsoft's build of OpenJDK?
                The Microsoft Build of OpenJDK is a new no-cost long-term supported distribution and Microsoft’s new way to collaborate and contribute to the Java ecosystem.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Leprechaunius View Post
                  In Java world every app bundles it's own dependencies..
                  That was the plan in theory but in practice it doesn't quite work. For example a large amount of dependencies are not pure Java and provide some native JNI "glue" code to link it to the C libraries.

                  Java programs would need to bundle Windows (x86, amd64), macOS (amd64, aarch64), Linux (x86, amd64, aarch74, armv7), FreeBSD (x86, amd64, aarch74, armv7) glue libs and that would still only be a tiny fraction of platforms. It doesn't even consider versions, different libc, etc.

                  You then have weird things like generating the native glue code on the fly but then you need an entire C toolchain and development libs (I think the OpenGL bindings, JOGL gluegen does this).

                  Honestly, all this crap with bindings is not unique to Java either and is why C is still one of the most popular languages, warts and all.
                  Last edited by kpedersen; 28 September 2021, 07:51 AM.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by user1 View Post
                    Hmm.. so that explains why since recently switching to Fedora, my Java apps don't launch at all. Other distro's I've tried that have OpenJDK preinstalled (like Linux Mint and Opensuse) didn't have any problems with launching Java apps. If that's the situation, I don't think OpenJDK should be preinstalled in Fedora.
                    OpenJDK is actually very well maintained in Fedora and has a dedicated Red Hat team with upstream contributors. The problems are with packages outside of those core ones. Also, I don't think OpenJDK is installed by default in Fedora.

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