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GNU C Library Lands Year 2038 Handling For Legacy ABIs

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  • #11
    I would have assumed something like FreeRTOS would be the tool of choice for this applications.

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    • #12
      Originally posted by skeevy420 View Post

      NY Subways used to run on OS/2. That started in 1993 and is just now being phased out.
      Sure, OS/2 as a base is quite old, but ArcaOS is keeping the dream alive, so if they want to save money, they can easily switch to Arca.

      But yeah, that old stuff is used for decades sometimes sometimes. The Dutch IRS is still using quite a few computers from the late 80's and early 90's. They don't want to replace them, but they also have trouble finding someone trained to support those PC's, but at least they are still running (for now).

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      • #13
        Originally posted by oleid View Post

        I yet have to find an embedded product with an 18 year life cycle. But clearly, I could imagine there is some infrastructure stuff (power plant?) that could be affected.
        it doesnt just have to be "live" time.

        For something that will use time eg to log predictable maintenance, you will be hit much earlier. Imagine a criticial piece of infrastructure marking essential repairs for 2038 or later due to a part needing replacing every 15 years. there could be thousands of such parts with different replace/repair times and they could be managed by Boeing. You wouldnt want that.

        There were some financial systems hit in 2018 because they used to forecast up to 20 years ahead.

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        • #14
          Originally posted by oleid View Post


          This is a use case for a micro controller or a bare-metal system, I assumed. Do they really run embedded linux?
          Doesnt just need to be those systems. It could also be the systems managing those systems.

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          • #15
            Originally posted by Vistaus View Post

            Sure, OS/2 as a base is quite old, but ArcaOS is keeping the dream alive, so if they want to save money, they can easily switch to Arca.

            But yeah, that old stuff is used for decades sometimes sometimes. The Dutch IRS is still using quite a few computers from the late 80's and early 90's. They don't want to replace them, but they also have trouble finding someone trained to support those PC's, but at least they are still running (for now).
            That's the point exactly. That stuff is used for decades and that there need to be operating systems designed for that now. That 20 years later hardware won't be exotic and hard to find. Luckily there are projects to keep old operating systems alive and ones that aim to fix that problem like CIP.

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            • #16
              Originally posted by oleid View Post

              I yet have to find an embedded product with an 18 year life cycle. But clearly, I could imagine there is some infrastructure stuff (power plant?) that could be affected.
              A friend of mine works for a company that does a lot of servicing of elevator components. They're making brand new boards today that use 8086es and 286s. This workplace also has a couple PDP-11-based systems that control PCB assembly lines. The components still work, are still being made, and the costs of certifiying and testing new designs is significant. The actual embedded market has ridiculously long service lives.

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              • #17
                Originally posted by KesZerda View Post

                A friend of mine works for a company that does a lot of servicing of elevator components. They're making brand new boards today that use 8086es and 286s. This workplace also has a couple PDP-11-based systems that control PCB assembly lines. The components still work, are still being made, and the costs of certifiying and testing new designs is significant. The actual embedded market has ridiculously long service lives.
                But, do they run Linux? If yes, which version?

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                • #18
                  Wait, where does one get 8086/286s these days? I don't think Linux can run on those, given that they're 16-bit…

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                  • #19
                    Originally posted by oleid View Post
                    I would have assumed something like FreeRTOS would be the tool of choice for this applications.
                    Some do run FreeRTOS but there is a reason why not that you next question answers.

                    Originally posted by oleid View Post
                    But, do they run Linux? If yes, which version?
                    Please note I did point to one vendor using Linux I could point to a lot more.

                    Originally posted by PluMGMK View Post
                    Wait, where does one get 8086/286s these days? I don't think Linux can run on those, given that they're 16-bit…
                    I will answer do they run Linux question the answer is not quite.
                    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embedd..._Kernel_Subset

                    Normal Linux is 32/64 bit then you have Embeddable Linux Kernel Subset also known as ELKS that is 16 bit. Yes ELKS is currently actively maintained. Thing here I have developed control software on a 32/64 bit Linux board for software that is not all the features of Linux porting the program to ELKS is normally not a huge effort if your program is C. If you have coded in C++ you are now in hell because dev86/bcc the complier for ELKS does not have C++ support at all. Most of your Linux enterprise distributions include the elks 16 bit c library as a package along side dev86 tools like bcc.

                    Now where do you get 8086/286 normally as FPGA solution.

                    https://opencores.org/projects/next186_soc_pc
                    https://www.eetimes.com/cycle-accura...308-fpga-luts/

                    Yes 8088/8086 does not require much of the space on a FPGA and it has mature development tools. There are a lot of enterprise embedded solutions that are FPGA not asic. Those using FPGA are looking quite a bit for what will use the least amount of fpga and has stable tooling to get the job done as less fpga usage equals lower cost and stability issues will not be acceptable.

                    I have not seen a 64 bit time fix for elks yet.

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                    • #20
                      Originally posted by PluMGMK View Post
                      Wait, where does one get 8086/286s these days? I don't think Linux can run on those, given that they're 16-bit…
                      The big electronics vendors -- Mouser, Digikey, etc -- have a ton of new stock of oldschool CPUs, like 8086s, etc. In the embedded world, nothing ever really dies, so there's a consistent, albeit small, demand for processors made decades ago. While they themselves don't run Linux, my example of 8086/8088 was more towards the "what design still gets used after 18 years" remark. The fancy embedded Linux designs of today are almost certainly going to become someone's legacy headache decades from now, given a lot of more recent elevators, like Kone's DX line, do have embedded Linux running various bits and pieces of electronics.

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