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  • #61
    Originally posted by torsionbar28 View Post
    And look at the result. Not good. You can literally overlay the graphs of declining church attendance, with those for murders, violent crimes, rapes, and out-of-wedlock child births, drug addiction, etc. and see a distinct correlation. As the one declines, the others go up.
    Nonsense. America is a far more violent place than Europe.

    [QUOTE] You are not a religious person, or if you are, you belong to some bizzare politically motivated cult. /QUOTE]

    I am a religious person. I'm not a Christian.

    I can assure you that none of the area churches I've attended have *ever* refuted scientific findings, have ever demanded that anyone speak or think like them, or have ever used the words "wokeism" or "libtardism". You are painting a very telling picture here, based on false stereotypes and outright lies. Where do you get this stuff from? I'm genuinely curious who told you that nonsense.
    No, I'm just quoting the kind of nutters who use such language. Often, if not always, they claim to be "religious" and espouse "Christian values."

    I invite you to come attend my church with me. Seriously. You might be shocked to discover that churches in real life are nothing like how you've been led to think.
    You're probably in the States, I'm in the UK, and I have visited churches before. I'm not shocked to discover there are decent Christians, because I didn't say there weren't. I said that the hypocrisy of the authoritarian "religious," (whatever religion they may espouse) is what turns people off.

    False. Colin was removed for knowingly offending the NFL's customer base. It's common knowledge that the flag and anthem are not to be used as props in cheap partisan theater. Colin knows that. There's a time and place to push a cause, and that simply isn't it. Clearly you have never served in the military. Sorry to disappoint, there is no deep conspiracy here. Why is it that difficult to understand why offending the majority of your audience is a bad business practice for a for-profit entertainment business?
    Seems like the NFL disagree with you now. So are they suddenly espousing a bad business model, or are you just miffed that he dared to highlight racism in a setting where you might actually have to listen?

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Kemosabe View Post
      Besides that, the group of people, let's call them "leaders" of the movement, they openly admit that this is about changing the use of words, because according to their believes, the word black is used in "bad context", that's why there is racism.
      And this is complete nonsense. The word "black" has dozens of uses with negative connotations in the English language alone: black economy, black sheep, black market, to blacken, a blackleg, a blackguard, a black mark...
      Trying to not use "black" in a completely technical context where it wasn't associated with skin color in a negative way anyway is not going to change the bad connotations of "black". "Black" is associated with something bad, and the real problem is that people have been marked with this bad label "black". If the activists really wanted to make a difference they would be trying to popularize the idea of not calling people "black", instead of trying to get rid of the negative connotations of "black", which is ridiculously hopeless. Even more ridiculous since they are only trying to get rid of it in technical contexts which aren't negative at all, LOL.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by DKJones View Post

        Sorry to break it to you, but religion is declining in America just as it is in the West. The decline merely took longer to start.

        And speaking as a religious person, the number one reason (tied with the assumption that religion is anti-science, at least) why religion is declining is because of the number of authoritarian hypocrites who demand that everyone speak and think like them. They whine
        Or maybe it's simply on the decline because the concept religion does not make any sense at all, and is intellectually insulting. Stopped reading after whine, because that's where the arguments and logic always start falling short. And people truly concerned about other's feelings, would not choose to use harsh and insulting words, right?

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        • #64
          Personally, I believe in healthy and pragmatic balance between the things. Not in the absolute ideals. If we are talking some mission-critical code, working unchanged like since 70-90s or something, when I think it's OK to leave it be. Not that a lot of people see such a code anyway. However, if we are writing some new code, perhaps we can skip some of these offensive words, if some PoC people actually would feel better and more included because of this. But again, we should not make this like regular routine or extend offensive world list to be unpractical. That's my 2 cents.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by Kemosabe View Post

            Or maybe it's simply on the decline because the concept religion does not make any sense at all, and is intellectually insulting. Stopped reading after whine, because that's where the arguments and logic always start falling short. And people truly concerned about other's feelings, would not choose to use harsh and insulting words, right?
            Like you're concerned about other people's feelings.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by DKJones View Post
              No, I'm just quoting the kind of nutters who use such language. Often, if not always, they claim to be "religious" and espouse "Christian values."
              Which nutters? Please provide a source for your quotes. Or did you fabricate them?

              If one claims that "black people" say "ooga booga, give me your money or i'll shoot you!" you'd call them a racist. You'd call that "hate speech". You're literally doing the same thing. Attributing language that nobody actually said, for the purpose of stereotyping and maligning an entire population. Pot, meet kettle.

              Originally posted by DKJones View Post
              I said that the hypocrisy of the authoritarian "religious," (whatever religion they may espouse) is what turns people off.
              Here in the states, we have separation of church and state codified into the Constitution, so we don't have to concern ourselves with this. Of course we do have secular zealots we have to contend with, activist Atheist types, who pontificate with a high degree of authoritarian hypocrisy.

              Originally posted by DKJones View Post
              Seems like the NFL disagree with you now. So are they suddenly espousing a bad business model,
              That much is clear, their viewership has declined substantially as a result. If they want to shoot themselves in the foot, they're welcome to. If I was one of their investors however, I'd be upset. Colin and the Kneeling Dunces are responsible for a 29% viewership drop year over year for the NFL - a massive decline. As for myself, I don't watch NFL, so it doesn't personally affect me.

              Originally posted by DKJones View Post
              or are you just miffed that he dared to highlight racism in a setting where you might actually have to listen?
              Again, I don't have to listen to their foolishness as I don't watch NFL games. I vote with my dollars and don't attend them either (pandemic aside). I make a conscious effort to avoid baseless conspiracy theories like racism, Bigfoot, and the Loch Ness Monster. Modern day racism comes from people who view their neighbors through the lens of race.
              Last edited by torsionbar28; 11 March 2021, 04:03 PM.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by drakonas777 View Post
                BTW, although I do think that these term replacements won't fix any real world problems, IMHO 9 times out of the 10 "main" is in fact shorter and cleaner than "master", especially where is no "classical" inter-modular master-slave relationship.
                Completely agree. The problem is the motivation. If somebody would not change "master" to "main" otherwise, then doing this purely out of speculation that this is racist is both false and wrong. If Git wanted to change master to main because people simply thought it was clearer, I'd have nothing against it. I might not care about it, but I wouldn't be against it. But Git existed for over 15 years now without anybody having a real problem with "master" as in a technical context, and now some activists come along and manage to convince people that finally after 15 years, the right reason to change to "main" is because "master" was racist here. LOL.
                I'm not against the change per se. I'm just horrified how stupid, illogical and hypocritical some people are. I'm also shocked by project maintainers and companies giving in to this pressure out of fear.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by torsionbar28 View Post

                  If one claims that "black people" say "ooga booga, give me your money or i'll shoot you!" you'd call them a racist. You'd call that "hate speech". You're literally doing the same thing. Constructing language that nobody actually said, for the purpose of stereotyping and maligning an entire population. Pot, meet kettle.
                  I'm not accusing Black people (or white people) of saying anything. I'm accusing people who use the word "libtard" of using the word "libtard."

                  Here in the states, we have separation of church and state codified into the Constitution,
                  And yet politicians fall over themselves to prove their religiosity. "God Bless America," and so on. Only in Northern Ireland does religion play anywhere near as big a part in politics as it does in the US, at least where Western Europe is concerned.

                  so we don't have to concern ourselves with this. Of course we do have secular zealots we have to contend with, activist Atheist types, who pontificate with a high degree of authoritarian hypocrisy.
                  Well, you can't be referring to me, since I'm not a secularist. Certainly there are atheist bigots, but your inference that bigots are all atheists and that there are no bigots on the religious side is nonsense.

                  That much is clear, their viewership has declined substantially as a result. If they want to shoot themselves in the foot, they're welcome to. If I was one of their investors however, I'd be upset. Colin and the Kneeling Dunces are responsible for a 29% viewership drop year over year for the NFL - a massive decline. As for myself, I don't watch NFL, so it doesn't personally affect me.
                  https://www.surveymonkey.co.uk/curio...ngs-declining/

                  As you will see from this, NFL viewership is declining both among those who don't support "taking a knee," and those who do.

                  Again, I don't have to listen to their foolishness as I don't watch NFL games. I vote with my dollars and don't attend them either (pandemic aside). I make a conscious effort to avoid baseless conspiracy theories like racism, Bigfoot, and the Loch Ness Monster.
                  The very idea that racism is a "conspiracy theory" is racism in itself, and not listening to Black people when they tell you that racism is a problem is the very essence of white supremacy.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by drakonas777 View Post
                    I have a pragmatic solution to this. Let's poll say 10k or more random PoC developers all around the world if they find term "master" in the code to be offensive. If 50+ % do, let's change it. That's all. I'm tired of these effing relentless rants.

                    BTW, although I do think that these term replacements won't fix any real world problems, IMHO 9 times out of the 10 "main" is in fact shorter and cleaner than "master", especially where is no "classical" inter-modular master-slave relationship.
                    So not fixing any problems, but somehow applying a "pragmatic" solution becomes what?
                    You are just as likely assuming main is the default branch, only now operating two incompatible schemes.
                    This introduces a problem, at the cost of the time of everyone actually involved.
                    It is in turn ever so slightly harder to give a coherent introduction to even the simplest tasks.

                    Consequently, why not ask Slavic developers what they think of the word "Slave"?
                    That is, if you will, the level of coherency implicated.

                    The derived logic does not support removal of "slavic" nomenclature anywhere any more than it supports
                    removing the Slavs from their heritage, of not only its truly correct use in terms of technology any more than the Slavs are removed from it.

                    Originally posted by calc View Post

                    Master/slave terminology obviously comes directly from slavery.
                    You are shoehorning a poor understanding of the word "master" into an understanding of its technology use.
                    At the root of this issue, slavery concerns every civilization in history. Some to this day. What this does is apply that inequality as it exists now, or counter-productively electing one or more groups one decides cannot escape it (at odds with historical evidence in every capacity).

                    Considering the etymology and history of the word "slave" problematic, not only purposely misconstrues its use not only for, but by the Slavics for how it is used in technology ever since.
                    Last edited by kingu; 11 March 2021, 04:14 PM.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by DKJones View Post
                      I'm not accusing Black people (or white people) of saying anything. I'm accusing people who use the word "libtard" of using the word "libtard."
                      False, go read your own words again. You make a blanket bigoted statement about "religious people". You specifically attributed that language. Again, that is no different than making blanket bigoted statements about "black people".

                      Originally posted by DKJones View Post
                      The very idea that racism is a "conspiracy theory" is racism in itself, and not listening to Black people when they tell you that racism is a problem is the very essence of white supremacy.
                      What then would you call Ignoring the science that proves there is no statistically significant difference in the way black people are treated - whether in policing or in employment - at least here in the US (I cannot speak to other countries)? It seems you are making accusations of "ignoring science" while doing so yourself.
                      Last edited by torsionbar28; 11 March 2021, 04:20 PM.

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