Apple Open-Sources Swift System, Adds Linux Support

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Not as long as Swift is much slower and more memory hungry than both C++ and Rust.

Swift vs Rust: https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.de...wift-rust.html
Swift vs C++: https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.de...swift-gpp.html

One would say "give it time", no, it's been around since 2016 and is already at version 5.3.

Uh huh.

And it's not like the world runs on Java, Python and Javascript which are slower than Swift. So...you're point actually was........??

[cl333r]

And it's not like the world runs on Java, Python and Javascript which are slower than Swift. So...you're point actually was........??

Take a wild guess Sherlock. Here's a hint:
That it's not suitable for system-level programming just like Java, Python and JavaScript.

[Jumbotron]

Take a wild guess Sherlock. Here's a hint:
That it's not suitable for system-level programming just like Java, Python and JavaScript.

And who the actual fsck has posted on this thread or any other where there was any support from anyone to do system level programming with Swift ??

And really....I wouldn't touch C++ with YOUR genitalia in a thousand years to do system-level programming. That piece of shit language shouldn't be anywhere near that kind of bare metal. C is only acceptable because it's half way readable compared to Assembly. And Rust....Jesus....what fscking planet did THAT syntax come from??? Yeah...so it forces safety in code. So does Ada...and just about anyone in a Introduction to Programming 101 course can read that syntax on the first day. Rust ??? LOL !!!

[bug77]

And yet it is the default language for one of the only two App stores on the planet for the two largest app ecosystems on the planet. YOU may not "see any compelling or innovative features about it at all" but the Apple ecosystem does and now the wider world will have a chance. To say that it's "just kind of a waste, really" is just wholesale ignorance.

That's because Apple can dictate users should use BASIC for those platform if they wanted to, not because there's something particularly compelling about the language.

Fwiw, Swift is mostly a copycat of Kotlin (see: https://medium.com/@anios4991/swift-...r-80a46090d9c6 or https://www.raywenderlich.com/6754-a...tlin-languages), so probably isn't that good a fit for systems programming.

[carewolf]

That's because Apple can dictate users should use BASIC for those platform if they wanted to, not because there's something particularly compelling about the language.

Fwiw, Swift is mostly a copycat of Kotlin (see: https://medium.com/@anios4991/swift-...r-80a46090d9c6 or https://www.raywenderlich.com/6754-a...tlin-languages), so probably isn't that good a fit for systems programming.

They are both based on ML languages. It is one of more common baselines for new languages.

[jrch2k8]

That's because Apple can dictate users should use BASIC for those platform if they wanted to, not because there's something particularly compelling about the language.

Fwiw, Swift is mostly a copycat of Kotlin (see: https://medium.com/@anios4991/swift-...r-80a46090d9c6 or https://www.raywenderlich.com/6754-a...tlin-languages), so probably isn't that good a fit for systems programming.

Well, honestly no one cares if Swift is factually better or worse since the important part is the Apple ecosystem, so if Apple would instead of swift use Basic that would be great too if you have the ease to make Apple code easily portable.

Now if Apple nerf Swift to be only core parts and all the Apple subsystems remain black boxes THEN even this article is a waste of letters since no one would give two cents for it.

Literally all we care about is the ease to simply run Apple code on Linux by recompiling and vice-versa and all the possible apps/mind-share that could come because of it on one side and the reduction of costs for business to provide Linux support since this days iOS at least is a big deal to keep in mind when you make clients for your services.

[Jumbotron]

That's because Apple can dictate users should use BASIC for those platform if they wanted to, not because there's something particularly compelling about the language.

Fwiw, Swift is mostly a copycat of Kotlin (see: https://medium.com/@anios4991/swift-...r-80a46090d9c6 or https://www.raywenderlich.com/6754-a...tlin-languages), so probably isn't that good a fit for systems programming.

Uhhh...you do know that Kotlin requires the JVM and as such is automatically disqualified from being a systems level programming language? And Swift is a compiled language. And because it also uses the Objective C runtime library and as such can incorporate C, C++ AND Objective C code, Swift would be WAY closer in being a system level programming language than Kotlin could ever be...which is never.

I mean...nearly the entirety of the NEXT Operating System and the NEXTStep framework was made using Objective C. And when Apple brought Steve Jobs back in and abandoned Copland for NEXT, they simply renamed NEXT to MacOS. MacOS and iOS which is derived directly from MacOS is chock a block full of Objective C code. And people say Objective C code is "slow" and not useful for "system level programming". And yet Apple became of 2 Trillion dollar valuated corporation in large part due to Objecctive C being the basis of not just NEXT/MacOS/iOS but being the primary language and framework for Mac programs and iOS apps all the way from the Apple Watch and all the way through the iPod, iPad, iPhone and the Mac itself.

Swift is the natural progression of Objective C. It may never become a system level programming environment as most people would traditionally define that. But most traditions are bullshit and need to be re-evaluated.

[cl333r]

And who the actual fsck has posted on this thread or any other where there was any support from anyone to do system level programming with Swift ??

And really....I wouldn't touch C++ with YOUR genitalia in a thousand years to do system-level programming. That piece of shit language shouldn't be near anywhere near that kind of bare metal. C is only acceptable because it's half way readable compared to Assembly. And Rust....Jesus....what fscking planet did THAT syntax come from??? Yeah...so it forces safety in code. So does Ada...and just about anyone in a Introduction to Programming 101 course can read that syntax on the first day. Rust ??? LOL !!!

hehe did you just flee from a mental institution?

[Jumbotron]

I'm rather shocked at the negativity with respect to Swift on Linux. It could easily morph into the ideal app development tool for Linux development. The release of this system library is just another step forward to a language that allows complete high level development without the decent into C interfaces that cause so much problem with programmers. Frankly I don't see it as a C/C++ replacement, rather it is a replacement for Python, Java and other higher level languages. The fact that it has some potential to replace C++ is just icing on the cake. Now Swift certainly needs more support on Linux and frankly it isn't completely there on Mac OS, but that does take some effort on the part of developers in the Linux community, just like any other open source product.

Speaking of open source either many commentators in this thread don't understand open source or they are just being dense, but by virtual of being open source Apple commitment means nothing here. Like any other open source project the maintenance can drift between parties as it evolves. Even if Apple dropped Swift tomorrow or Apple went belly up, Swift is still a very compelling language. Swift doesn't need Apple to be useful on Linux down the road, just like C, C++, Python, (or favored language) doesn't need Apple to remain useful.

Useful is another consideration, I can see Swift as being the long term replacement for Python when it comes to programmer productivity, ease of maintenance and support for new programming features. Swift disposes of some of the notorious constructs that make C++ a maintenance headache while eliminating some of the shortcomings of languages like Python when it comes to app development. I like to call it hitting the high middle ground between Python and C++ with respect to readability.

No language is perfect but I've yet to see a rational dismissal of Swift on Linux. The community should be embracing Swift instead and by doing so we might actually see a step change in app quality and the number of apps available.

Well stated. And correct.

[Jumbotron]

hehe did you just flee from a mental institution?

Only the insane continue to do the wrong thing expecting a different outcome.

The most successful and productive Operating System and framework for applications and for consumer use is MacOS. Written with Objective C

The most successful and productive Operating System and framework for mainframes, supercomputers, IoT, servers and even in a lot of cases, personal computing is
UNIX / Linux. Written in C

The WORST Operating System and framework of ALL TIME is Microsoft Windows. Written in C++

So who is mental ??