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Apple Open-Sources Swift System, Adds Linux Support

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  • #21
    Originally posted by pal666 View Post
    afair average non-game apple store developer loses money. it's like casino is a huge money maker
    android development is even more popular. and java exists on linux. not sure how it translated into apps porting
    1.) Kinda true but is a bit more complex than that but ok, still is way better than alternatives.

    2.) kinda true and kinda true yet is not trivial at all to migrate pure android app to run on desktop and vice versa plus desktop java behaves horribly compared to android java at least on Linux.

    So is not very attractive unless you really really have to. Swift on the other hand could get a lot closer.

    Again, i love C++ and will be my lang of preference for the next decade but remember "right tool for the job", Swift is miles ahead of C++ for UI design and other common dekstop apps operations while been lot faster than Vala/python(not as fast as C++/rust tho), so all i'm saying is if done right it has a space on the tooling arsenal

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    • #22
      I'm rather shocked at the negativity with respect to Swift on Linux. It could easily morph into the ideal app development tool for Linux development. The release of this system library is just another step forward to a language that allows complete high level development without the decent into C interfaces that cause so much problem with programmers. Frankly I don't see it as a C/C++ replacement, rather it is a replacement for Python, Java and other higher level languages. The fact that it has some potential to replace C++ is just icing on the cake. Now Swift certainly needs more support on Linux and frankly it isn't completely there on Mac OS, but that does take some effort on the part of developers in the Linux community, just like any other open source product.

      Speaking of open source either many commentators in this thread don't understand open source or they are just being dense, but by virtual of being open source Apple commitment means nothing here. Like any other open source project the maintenance can drift between parties as it evolves. Even if Apple dropped Swift tomorrow or Apple went belly up, Swift is still a very compelling language. Swift doesn't need Apple to be useful on Linux down the road, just like C, C++, Python, (or favored language) doesn't need Apple to remain useful.

      Useful is another consideration, I can see Swift as being the long term replacement for Python when it comes to programmer productivity, ease of maintenance and support for new programming features. Swift disposes of some of the notorious constructs that make C++ a maintenance headache while eliminating some of the shortcomings of languages like Python when it comes to app development. I like to call it hitting the high middle ground between Python and C++ with respect to readability.

      No language is perfect but I've yet to see a rational dismissal of Swift on Linux. The community should be embracing Swift instead and by doing so we might actually see a step change in app quality and the number of apps available.

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      • #23
        Originally posted by Ironmask View Post
        I'm legitimately curious if anyone is ever going to use this. As far as I can tell[1], Swift is just "a better replacement for Objective-C", I don't see any compelling or innovative features about it at all, and I love getting hyped over new languages. It actually feels kind of like a missed opportunity; just kind of a waste, really.

        [1] Just from a general glance over the language. Every time I tried to look up anything about Swift's features, all I got were general introductions to programming, which started feeling insulting, like the language community was treating me like a baby instead of just someone who was interested in a new language.
        My guess is Apple needs this because they're about to pull the whole x86 from under their OS. It's a transitional thing that will be put to sleep once ARM support is solid enough. Not sure what business does it have on Linux or Windows, tho.
        Last edited by bug77; 26 September 2020, 04:46 PM.

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        • #24
          Originally posted by Marc Driftmeyer View Post

          They should have continued maturing ObjC and extending its features.
          Am I dreaming? Normally, you're 100% pro-Apple, no matter what they do...

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          • #25
            Originally posted by pal666 View Post
            afair average non-game apple store developer loses money.
            It's not the Holy Grail, that's for sure, but I think you're confusing the Apple App Store with the Windows App Store.

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            • #26
              Originally posted by Vistaus View Post

              It's not the Holy Grail, that's for sure, but I think you're confusing the Apple App Store with the Windows App Store.
              Well, he have some truth about Apple store, sure if you are a single developer or a small business and your entire revenue depends on sale on the app store where you are competing with other more exposed brands then you will face an uphill battle specially taking into account the Apple Tax but we can argue that is not how it should be done.

              Now for a more competent business structure with proper SaaS services and marketing then it is another story entirely specially since been on the Apple App Store on itself is a very strong user facing guarantee even if your app is free can boost substantially your business model indirectly.

              I do agree the Microsoft App Store is a dead space and a waste of bandwidth and i'm been generous

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              • #27
                I can't help but feel that Apple has simply done some clever marketing with their AppStore. I don't think there is particularly any money to be had compared to other outlets.
                Those that are paraded around as the "AppStore superstars" are quite likely to have been successful in any market place.

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                • #28
                  Originally posted by kpedersen View Post
                  I can't help but feel that Apple has simply done some clever marketing with their AppStore. I don't think there is particularly any money to be had compared to other outlets.
                  Those that are paraded around as the "AppStore superstars" are quite likely to have been successful in any market place.
                  Nope, Apple have 2 huge advantages:

                  1.) Apple users are way more open to spend money than Android users(and Microsoft assuming that mess still exists) and everyone i know that have apps in both store make the lion share of their profits from Apple Store and is their actual priority and they tell me android app this days is more of a marketing situation because users distrust services that don't showcase both platforms(not a marketing expert, so i won't call that last part an assertion since is likely in other regions thing are different).

                  2.) Apple as a brand for the regular mortal user have a huge weight and simply showcasing your product is first class citizen on Apple is a huge decision factor for many many users when the decision to acquire services is made(not a marketing expert, so i won't call that last part an assertion since is likely in other regions thing are different).

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                  • #29
                    Originally posted by jrch2k8 View Post

                    Nope, Apple have 2 huge advantages:

                    1.) Apple users are way more open to spend money than Android users(and Microsoft assuming that mess still exists) and everyone i know that have apps in both store make the lion share of their profits from Apple Store and is their actual priority and they tell me android app this days is more of a marketing situation because users distrust services that don't showcase both platforms(not a marketing expert, so i won't call that last part an assertion since is likely in other regions thing are different).
                    To state the obvious - most iPhone sales are high end models, so the average Apple buyer has a lot more disposable income than the average Android buyer.

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                    • #30
                      Originally posted by Ironmask View Post
                      I'm legitimately curious if anyone is ever going to use this. As far as I can tell[1], Swift is just "a better replacement for Objective-C", I don't see any compelling or innovative features about it at all, and I love getting hyped over new languages. It actually feels kind of like a missed opportunity; just kind of a waste, really.

                      [1] Just from a general glance over the language. Every time I tried to look up anything about Swift's features, all I got were general introductions to programming, which started feeling insulting, like the language community was treating me like a baby instead of just someone who was interested in a new language.
                      And yet it is the default language for one of the only two App stores on the planet for the two largest app ecosystems on the planet. YOU may not "see any compelling or innovative features about it at all" but the Apple ecosystem does and now the wider world will have a chance. To say that it's "just kind of a waste, really" is just wholesale ignorance.

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