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GNUstep Might Deprecate Support For GNU's GCC In Favor Of LLVM Clang

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  • #21
    Well I would say that's a resounding condemnation of Apple software. It really just goes to show how terrible Cocoa and Objective-C are that there is so little interest to develop it that not only does basically nobody use it, but that an extremely actively developed compiler isn't advancing support for the next version of Objective C which leaves only clang which only has support because it's Apple's own compiler, forcing this situation.

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    • #22
      Originally posted by wizard69 View Post
      What makes you think Swift will disappear? As a programming language Swift runs circles around Objective C.
      Its mostly the same old story for other platforms. Just look at Microsoft looking to focus on winrt C++ extensions over C# now. Why do you think this is?

      The reason is a simple one; all of the new innovations (Vulkan, OpenVR, OpenCL, MoltenVK, etc. etc. etc) are released as system libraries written C because it is the lowest common denominator (for compatibility) C++ and Objective-C have direct access to that language (being extensions of C themselves).

      C#, Java and Swift require bindings which are expensive to maintain and quickly become obsolete.

      I know it sounds counter intuitive and against the grain but you will see.

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      • #23
        Originally posted by kpedersen View Post

        Its mostly the same old story for other platforms. Just look at Microsoft looking to focus on winrt C++ extensions over C# now. Why do you think this is?

        The reason is a simple one; all of the new innovations (Vulkan, OpenVR, OpenCL, MoltenVK, etc. etc. etc) are released as system libraries written C because it is the lowest common denominator (for compatibility) C++ and Objective-C have direct access to that language (being extensions of C themselves).

        C#, Java and Swift require bindings which are expensive to maintain and quickly become obsolete.

        I know it sounds counter intuitive and against the grain but you will see.
        Strictly speaking, Swift doesn't require bindings, because it already directly operates on the C ABI of the host platform. You can use C/C++/Objective-C libraries directly from Swift.

        Now, if you want an idiomatic mapping from C/C++/Objective-C to Swift, you can write a module to do so. But it's entirely optional.

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        • #24
          Originally posted by Vistaus View Post
          But why is it still called "GNU"step if it drops support for one of the most important GNU parts? Doesn't make sense to me.
          Because it is still a GNU project?

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          • #25
            Originally posted by DMJC View Post
            You do realise that there's an environment variable in GNUstep that makes all GNUstep menus turn into Macintosh style menus that run across the top of the screen right? And there's a program in Etoile called WildMenus that adds a system menu like the Apple menu from OSX? This is what adding a nicer theme and those menu changes does to GNUstep:

            Or you just add a Macintosh theme like this one:
            ... but it still seems to me to be old and ugly.

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            • #26
              Originally posted by Charlie68 View Post

              ... but it still seems to me to be old and ugly.
              But less old and less ugly at least

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              • #27
                Originally posted by Vistaus View Post

                He was talking about Etoile's integration. Etoile is a (currently stalled) Mac-like DE.
                I looked at the image DJMC posted, which is taken from the nextspace github repository.

                The author of the nextstep repository explicitly states that the goal is to recreate the NeXTSTEP experience, NOT the mac OS experience:

                Originally posted by nextspace
                NEXTSPACE is a desktop environment that brings a NeXTSTEP look and feel to Linux. I try to keep the user experience as close as possible to the original NeXT's OS. (...)

                I will not plan to do:
                • Implementing a macOS-like desktop paradigm. There is another good place for this -- see √Čtoil√©.
                ... which is why I asked.
                Last edited by ermo; 27 November 2019, 09:11 AM.

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                • #28
                  Originally posted by DMJC View Post
                  You do realise that there's an environment variable in GNUstep that makes all GNUstep menus turn into Macintosh style menus that run across the top of the screen right? And there's a program in Etoile called WildMenus that adds a system menu like the Apple menu from OSX?
                  No, I did not know that. Thanks for the heads up.

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                  • #29
                    Originally posted by ermo View Post

                    I looked at the image DJMC posted, which is taken from the nextspace github repository.

                    The author of the nextstep repository explicitly states that the goal is to recreate the NeXTSTEP experience, NOT the mac OS experience:



                    ... which is why I asked.
                    ... and DJMC is talking about how you can easily set up Etoile WITHIN NextSpace/GNUStep. So rather than being a smart ass, maybe you should try to *understand* what was actually said and how that works.

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