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Ubuntu & Debian Moving Along With Plans For Removing Python 2 Packages

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  • Ubuntu & Debian Moving Along With Plans For Removing Python 2 Packages

    Phoronix: Ubuntu & Debian Moving Along With Plans For Removing Python 2 Packages

    With Debian 10 "Buster" out the door and Python 2 hitting end-of-life at the end of the year, Debian is working on their process of removing Python 2 packages that don't get ported to Python 3 and Ubuntu is working on similar action for their Python 2 packages not found in upstream Debian...

    http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...thon-2-Process

  • #2
    I've been hearing this since 2014 but on Ubuntu 19.04, if I type $ `python` I _still_ get 2.7.15. Until the python command defaults to 3.x I consider 2.7 to be alive and well, and for the subsequent 5 years too, no matter what the neojava...sorry "python" core developer zealots keep astroturfing.
    Last edited by vegabook; 08-27-2019, 11:15 AM.

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    • #3
      This is great. For too long have Python developers been flippantly dragging in dependencies and scripts without worrying about future maintenance.

      Now that Python is getting some legacy baggage it will be a good learning experience for a developer to have to solve things. For example the issue of a dependency they are completely reliant upon not having yet been ported to Python 3.x whilst at the same time another dependency they require no longer supports version 2.x because some Linux distros have "moved on".

      Normally I hate pointless artificial deprecation like this but since I have made sure that I have zero ties to Python projects, I am gonna grab some popcorn instead

      The only people I feel sorry for are the Raspberry Pi kids who are trying to learn how to program and have been force fed Python.
      Last edited by kpedersen; 08-26-2019, 12:47 PM.

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      • #4
        Oh man...

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        • #5
          Originally posted by vegabook View Post
          I've been hearing this since 2014 but on Ubuntu 19.04, if I type $ `python` I _still_ get 2.7.15. Until the python command defaults to 3.x I consider 2.7 to be alive and well, and for the subsequent 5 years too, no matter what the python core developer zealots keep astroturfing.
          Sorry due to ABI brake with python 3 its binary will always be "python3". Debian developers are working on dropping python 2 and that means the "python" binary itself will disappear completely in time and only "python3" binary will remain.

          There is an option you will not particularly like on the table.
          https://docs.python.org/2/library/2to3.html
          Yes the option is make python be automatically run 2to3 convert.

          You really don't want to be still using python binary by the time final step gets done. You will want to migrate to python 3 and use the python3 binary name so your code does not end up auto-migrated and possible broken in the process.

          Originally posted by kpedersen View Post
          This is great. For too long have Python developers been flippantly dragging in dependencies and scripts without worrying about future maintenance.

          Now that Python is getting some legacy baggage it will be a good learning experience for a developer to have to solve things. For example the issue of a dependency they are completely reliant upon not having yet been ported to Python 3.x whilst at the same time another dependency they require no longer supports version 2.x because some Linux distros have "moved on".

          Normally I hate pointless artificial deprecation like this but since I have made sure that I have zero ties to Python projects, I am gonna grab some popcorn instead

          The only people I feel sorry for are the Raspberry Pi kids who are trying to learn how to program and have been force fed Python.
          https://www.raspberrypi.org/document...ware/python.md

          Sorry Raspberry PI has been trying to push users to python 3 for a while.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by oiaohm View Post

            Sorry due to ABI brake with python 3 its binary will always be "python3". Debian developers are working on dropping python 2 and that means the "python" binary itself will disappear completely in time and only "python3" binary will remain.
            Finally a distro doing it right.

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            • #7
              Developers have to discard obsolete software more quickly.... so to improve the efficiency with which to yield Linux operating systems. They have to apply the ABM criteria so to detect the non added value activities in order to eliminate them.

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              • #8
                I'm glad this moment is getting closer. I'd love to see people embrace new things a little bit more, so maintenance of legacy software is not an issue.

                Upgrading between versions of the language isn't that bad if someone continuously maintains it, and tries to keep things up to date. I don't think new developers should be forced to know details of how things were done 20 years ago just because they might (and will) run into code from that era that wasn't upgraded.

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                • #9
                  WTF

                  From https://www.python.org/download/releases/3.0/
                  Python 3.0 final was released on December 3rd, 2008.


                  A step forward, in the right direction, but to late .

                  Python 3 should have been the default python version already since Ubuntu 14.04 or 16.04. And Not to wait until 2020.

                  The good news:Python 4 will be default in Ubuntu, around 2050

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                  • #10
                    Arch has been ahead of the game for years. Just typing "python" defaults to python 3, and it hardly causes any problems for them. You have to specify "python2" if you want version 2. So, for all of you saying stuff like "the python devs are dragging this on" or "it's not dead yet because Ubuntu hasn't dropped it" or how it's somehow going to be an ABI problem: apparently, you're all wrong.

                    As far as I'm concerned, the main reason Debian and Ubuntu haven't been able to transition is because of legacy software they still intend to support that never upgraded. The only people who can be blamed are the maintainers of those programs. Not Debian, not Canonical, not the python devs. It gets trickier for Ubuntu and Debian since a lot of their users upgrade old systems that depend on a plain "python" command that defaults to python 2. So, it's no surprise why it's taking so long.

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