Sony Is Working On AMD Ryzen LLVM Compiler Improvements - Possibly For The PlayStation 5

[coder]

This is nice. I suppose Valve is going for a console competitor too next gen. If they really do release a console, Linux desktop eventually will dominate the whole world. And you can take that to the bank, LOL.

The new "Atari" console is built around an existing Ryzen APU and is supposed to run Linux. I'd imagine it runs Steam, unless they somehow actively prevented that.

[Michael_S]

The PlayStation 4 launched in late 2013 with 2011 AMD APU parts running at 1.6 GHz. So it was pretty far off the cutting edge. I could easily see a PS5 or PS4 trim aimed to beat the Xbox One X using Zen 1.

[Duve]

I don't think zen 2 will differ much from zen 1 so this work can probably be reused.
I think it will be most about different nodes and the positive changes a node change brings.

Well that is basically what Zen + is currently and that has put out just a few months ago. I would hazard a bet that Zen 2 will be a little more fundamental with the changes that Zen + is currently, and brings down the wattage a bit (it is literally the only thing that lacks with Zen +, to get it's power is TDP is a bit higher than Zen 1 chips.). That said, I don't think that AMD is in the market of rebuilding the architecture.... given how successful it has been currently.

[theriddick]

Which is the main reason the previous batch of steam machines went nowhere.

More like they didn't do enough research to notice that the overall driver scene under Linux was a mess back then, its only just now cleaning itself up but plenty of issues remain.

[discordian]

The PlayStation 4 launched in late 2013 with 2011 AMD APU parts running at 1.6 GHz. So it was pretty far off the cutting edge. I could easily see a PS5 or PS4 trim aimed to beat the Xbox One X using Zen 1.

Sorry, Zen 1 makes no sense (nor does a PS4 "trim"?). Zen2 will be a direct sucessor, and be manufactured with a new process (7nm). For a generational leap in performance (and efficiency if you dont want to multiple power-draw), 7nm will be essential and Zen/Zen+ wont be brought to this process.
the PS4/XBOXOne CPUs were based on AMDs mobile chips, not on an older desktop chip like you are implying.

[coder]

Well that is basically what Zen + is currently and that has put out just a few months ago. I would hazard a bet that Zen 2 will be a little more fundamental with the changes that Zen + is currently, and brings down the wattage a bit (it is literally the only thing that lacks with Zen +, to get it's power is TDP is a bit higher than Zen 1 chips.). That said, I don't think that AMD is in the market of rebuilding the architecture.... given how successful it has been currently.

Zen+ (2000-series) is literally just a node change. They didn't even fundamentally change layout.

Zen 2 is an architecture update. If they hope to compete with Intel on single-thread performance, it's very much needed.

[coder]

Sorry, Zen 1 makes no sense (nor does a PS4 "trim"?). Zen2 will be a direct sucessor, and be manufactured with a new process (7nm). For a generational leap in performance (and efficiency if you dont want to multiple power-draw), 7nm will be essential and Zen/Zen+ wont be brought to this process.

I'm not sure they use the same backend & layout for these custom jobs as their baseline products. For instance, PS4 Slim, PS4 Pro and XBox One S, and XBox One X all used older cores on a newer process. In at least the latter case, the cores even contain additional customizations. Mid-generation node shrinks aren't new, for consoles - the PS3 had at least 3 of the CPU and GPU, each (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlaySt...Configurations).

Anyway, there are economic reasons why they might not ship on 7 nm, plus the lead-time vs. market window I mentioned above. It's not all simply about having the latest, greatest, and fastest tech. If the current gen is anything to go by, they don't mind doing a mid-generation refresh.

PS4/XBOXOne CPUs were based on AMDs mobile chips, not on an older desktop chip like you are implying.

Not mobile chips, but mobile cores. They probably did a quick calculation and found they could achieve more performance with a larger number of the smaller, more efficient cores than fewer of the Bulldozer-derived ones. Also, they had to maximize GPU, so die area was another concern.

[Luke_Wolf]

More like they didn't do enough research to notice that the overall driver scene under Linux was a mess back then, its only just now cleaning itself up but plenty of issues remain.

Valve gets a 30% cut of every game sold on Steam and literally has the most leverage of any company in the game industry to get others to do what they want. You really want to take that stance when what they could and should have done is hired an entire division similar to Sony or Microsoft to do OS development which would have easily made all those problems go away well before launch. Then at launch they could have actually spent the time and money to actually market the thing to the general public, and set up stores to have proper display units rather than just shoving them into gamestops to have a wall of before promptly seeming to forget the whole project even existed.

[TemplarGR]

I'd like to believe, but deep down in my heart I know they won't. For one reason and one reason only. They're Valve, and so if they do launch hardware again they're going to quarter ass the launch again because they didn't even go so far as half assing it. Which is the main reason the previous batch of steam machines went nowhere.

This is not true. Reality is that for the current gen Valve didn't have the capability to launch a proper console to compete with Xbox One and PS4. Those consoles are established, have OSes that they have been working on for decades, and could support a software ecosystem. SteamOS was barebones in 2010-12 (which was the time window to prepare a console for late 2013), drivers sucked, everything sucked. Steam Machines were never supposed to be consoles.

But now, Linux is very, VERY mature, to support a Vulkan-based console. RADV is pretty good already, and by the time new consoles should launch (around 2020ish), it will probably be stellar. So now Valve can make a custom SteamOS with DRM and all that jazz and launch a PS5 competitor. And i really think they will...

[TemplarGR]

No, the consoles take existing CPU & GPU cores (with tweaks) and build them into a new APU. From start to having shiny consoles on the shelves, the process probably takes at least two years. Zen 2 likely missed the window, meaning it's likely they used zen 1.

If the PS5-buying public is lucky, they at least used the 2000 series, which is architecturally identical to the 1000's.

This is not entirely true. Mr Bridgman could elaborate since i do not work in the console hardware industry, but semi-custom designs often use evolutions of hardware that haven't made it to public consumption on pc yet. For example PS4Pro uses FP16 "packed math" even though it was released before Vega.

Also, it is very likely that right now Sony has already sent developer kits to software partners, or are preparing to do so. Early developer kits often don't have exactly the same hardware architecture as the final product but are similar enough in order to get development started. Modern games take years to be ready, they need to send those kits at least 1 1/2 or 2 years before a console's launch, possibly even more. So developers are going to work with Zen 1 machines for the time being, but PS5 may use Zen 2 or even Zen 3 by the time it launches.