PipeWire Is Making Progress But Still Needs More Time To Mature

[ssokolow]

My viewpoint is "I have work to get done. My computer isn't someone else's hobby toy." and, whether it's Lennart or the KDE crew (and I say this as a KDE user), some upstreams keep cropping up in the "this got released to the public before it was ready" lists. As a developer, it's your responsibility to make sure that downstreams understand the release-readiness of the software you're putting out.

KDE x.0 and several releases following have a history of being unstable and feature poor, yet they get shipped and the devs use "Don't blame 4.0. 3.0 and 2.0 were the same way" as if it somehow justified their refusal to properly communicate that they're preview releases and nothing more. Lennart has a similar problem with communication and taking responsibility.

That said, given your response to both coder and me, It's clear that a discussion won't be productive, so I'm going to bow out here and let you have the last word. As far as I'm concerned, we've agreed to disagree.

[coder]

then maybe those functions are not ready yet for being used by you?

Okay, so sd_bus isn't ready for use? When will it be? How will I know? Lenart blogged about it 2.5 years ago. I take that as a sign he thinks it's ready for use.

or maybe they are just waiting for your pull request with comments and docs?

Sorry, but that's just poor. It's one thing not to write nice tutorials and other high-level docs that make users feel warm and fuzzy, but it's a mark of poor software development practice if you don't even document your APIs at manpage level (i.e. parameters, returns, errors, and side effects). The API docs are part of the contract.

I can even describe how the code is currently implemented, but I can't know whether I'm over-specifying it or even documenting a bug as intended behavior. Writing API docs is a fundamental part of writing the API.

But this thread isn't even about Lenart, so I apologize for adding fuel to that fire.

[pal666]

Okay, so sd_bus isn't ready for use?

it is ready for use. some functions can be not ready for use by you
though they are ready for use by their current users

When will it be?

when you or somebody else writes man page? i don't know your requirements

How will I know?

check man pages?

Lenart blogged about it 2.5 years ago. I take that as a sign he thinks it's ready for use.

it was ready for collaboration. so you could come in and help write man page for example. or you think somebody else will write documentation for you for free? btw i bet function in question did not exist 2.5 years ago at all

Sorry, but that's just poor. It's one thing not to write nice tutorials and other high-level docs that make users feel warm and fuzzy, but it's a mark of poor software development practice if you don't even document your APIs at manpage level (i.e. parameters, returns, errors, and side effects). The API docs are part of the contract.

what contract did you sign? i use sd_bus without any contract. when function lacks documentation i read its sources. do you insist that they should disallow me to use it because you didn't help them to write docs? or you insist that they should stop further development until you have written docs?

I can even describe how the code is currently implemented, but I can't know whether I'm over-specifying it or even documenting a bug as intended behavior.

don't use that function then, use some other dbus library? what is your problem here?

[coder]

it is ready for use. some functions can be not ready for use by you

No, you clearly didn't review the state of the sd_bus manpages, before posting that.

you think somebody else will write documentation for you for free?

If they put it out there for use, it should be documented for use, like the rest of the userspace stuff out there. It's what I do, whether in open-source software or not. Just because it's free doesn't mean it should be garbage.

when function lacks documentation i read its sources.

I did. I'm no stranger to this. But, for reasons I've already given, this is not a satisfactory substitute for baseline API docs. ...or even some comments in the header file!

Please tell us what software you work on, so I can try to avoid it.

what is your problem here?

It was sloppy stuff by Lennart. Now, it seems to be your troll-posting.