Solaris 11.4 To Move From GNOME 2 Desktop To GNOME Shell

[Vistaus]

Not updating and improving resulting in leaving highly flawed items in usage does not sound anywhere near as good but it is the truth of their actions.

Exactly. There are plenty of ATM's still running on OS/2, even though OS/2 has been dead for many years now. One chain of stores in my country is still running Windows 98, which has been dead for how long now? And those are just two examples. So they do need to go with the times.

[oiaohm]

No, this is not correct. The reason BSD and Solaris does not want to change anything is not lack of developers. The correct reason is that in large scale Enterprise IT, change is frowned upon. Stability is everything. Different priorities.

Really Stability claim is bogus. Not wanting change is correct. Getting rid of hald and moving to KMS was about fixing unfixable issues that causes the desktop environment of unix/linux/bsd to randomly fail. There are other parts that were causing server side stability issues as well.

Enterprise IT needs serous kick in teeth. Its like them running out of date openssl with known security flaws because it would cost them more certifying the change.

Claiming stability makes it sound like Enterprise IT is some how doing something good. Not updating and improving resulting in leaving highly flawed items in usage does not sound anywhere near as good but it is the truth of their actions.

[pavlerson]

http://bitcannon.net/post/gnome3-on-freebsd/

If you go have a good read of the freedesktop mailing lists you will see a clear problem of BSD and Solaris developers not being engaged in anything other than saying don't change anything. At some point they will have to work out doing nothing does not work long term.

It's definitely a long term issue, going back a good fifteen years or more, but it's not just lack of engagement, though. A lot of the problem is simply that the BSD and Solaris communities are *tiny* compared to those on Linux... fewer developers, fewer resources. So when the Linux-based developers build a bunch of useful new infrastructure that everyone wants to make use of in projects like Gnome or KDE, the likes of BSD and Solaris just don't have the ability to keep up with what's happening in the Linux world.

No, this is not correct. The reason BSD and Solaris does not want to change anything is not lack of developers. The correct reason is that in large scale Enterprise IT, change is frowned upon. Stability is everything. Different priorities.

In Enterprise, you have large servers (Unix, mainframes etc) that powers the entire financial system. Salaries for billions of people. What happens if they does not get salaries in time? All companies cannot do their business on time? In finance and banking, you are afraid to touch anything that works fine. "If it is not broke, dont touch it". This is why large companies runs mainframes that are decades old. It is not about performance or the latest features. It is about stability. They pay ridicilous amount of money for uptime and stability, they are not interested in performance at all.

It is the same discussion with C# vs Java. Java has complains that is an old language and very slowly (if all) gets the latest features. Whereas C# has all the latest whistles and bells and all modern functionality. The reason is that Sun has an outspoken and well known policy, that Java powers critical banking/finance servers and long support cycles is the most important. So Sun said that Java will evolve very slowly, only adding a feature if time shows that the feature was not a gimmick, but has an actual use. Slow and mature development. However, Sun said that Java will evolve very rapidly, their libraries. Because libraries is not the core language. Java powers large enterprise servers, and they have decade long support cycles. Dont change, dont touch.

OTOH, C# powers desktop. You reboot desktops all the time, and no one complains if you do that. You cannot reboot stock exchanges as easily. C# does not power large business servers, they all use C++ or Java. Never ever C#. C# is for the clients. That is why C# evolves rapidly adding all new hot functionality all the time. And that is why C# is bloated. The core Java language is small in comparison (libraries are huge, but not the core Java)

This is why BSD and Solaris and Mainframes say "dont change anything". Because they are targeted to large business servers. Not desktop, as Linux is.

[aht0]

Well, considering GNOME 3 runs on OpenBSD, I'd say the systemd requirement is bunk. Also, there's LoginKit (https://github.com/dimkr/LoginKit) which is what Devuan uses as its logind, I believe.

OpenBSD created dummy systemd packages for this.

Gnome 3 on FreeBSD seems to be mostly stuck on 3.18, which is couple of years old. Some components are 3.24 but none appear newer.

[oiaohm]

elogind works on nonLinux OS?

Sorry I did not have the right one.

Well, considering GNOME 3 runs on OpenBSD, I'd say the systemd requirement is bunk. Also, there's LoginKit (https://github.com/dimkr/LoginKit) which is what Devuan uses as its logind, I believe.

That is also not the right one.

If you are using a update consolekit you have logind prootcol as well.

https://github.com/ConsoleKit2/ConsoleKit2/issues/10

Yes Consolekit2. Note you need a consolekit to have KDE and GDM login managers work correctly before systemd exists.

There comes a point when it comes a serous question why maintain the old stuff. This is basically what happened the protocols systemd implements that gnome depends on are mostly now also implemented in the updated parts you would have to have installed when you don't have systemd and attempt to use sysvinit or other operating systems.

So I am more than serous that the graphical environments depending on systemd has been mostly making a mountain out of a mole hill. Its mostly been that systemd has been ahead of the curve and the others options have need to catch up. Consolekit2 implement logind protocol enabled to to do stuff it could not do prior. The logind protocol was design to address particular limitations of the consolekit design.

[aht0]

Did sound indeed like a marketing division's ad..

[starshipeleven]

Wonderful News ! Now the Unix AND Linux world are unifying on a standard desktop ,GNOME, and the underlying tech behind it, GTK+ This WILL UNDENIABLY help the entire Unix/Linux world but particularly the Linux computing world continue the slow but continuous drive into breaking up the desktop duopoly of MacOS and Windows. GNOME is the default desktop of all three major Linux distributions....( Fedora/Red Hat, Suse and Ubuntu )....and now Solaris. Yes...yes...Solaris like most Unices are greybeards and blah blah.....but they undergird THE MOST critical of services from defense to banking. The simple fact is NOW finally....when someone learns one Linux system and/or Unix there is now ONE LESS thing to have to re-learn and that being the ins and outs of the GUI. This is something the Windows and MacOS and even ChromeOS admins and end users have never really had to deal with. Yes...yes....Windows XP/7 to Windows 8/8.1/10.....however that is not the point. There has never been an Xfce version or KDE version or Cinnamon version or Elementary version or Fluxbox version, etc.etc of Windows. Or MacOS. This fact has helped these OS's obtain and retain end users and thus build and solidify their positions in the computing world. We'll still have the flexibility of having hobbyists DE's such as KDE and Xfce and Fluxbox and Elementary, etc. That's one of the things that makes Linux great ! However....it's time for Linux and Unix to grow up and consolidate around a common end user GUI and DE. And GNOME is it. Congrats GNOME team for another win !

Aaand this is another sockpuppet of the same blind GNOME fanboy that disappeared some time ago.

[Jumbotron]

Wonderful News ! Now the Unix AND Linux world are unifying on a standard desktop ,GNOME, and the underlying tech behind it, GTK+ This WILL UNDENIABLY help the entire Unix/Linux world but particularly the Linux computing world continue the slow but continuous drive into breaking up the desktop duopoly of MacOS and Windows. GNOME is the default desktop of all three major Linux distributions....( Fedora/Red Hat, Suse and Ubuntu )....and now Solaris. Yes...yes...Solaris like most Unices are greybeards and blah blah.....but they undergird THE MOST critical of services from defense to banking. The simple fact is NOW finally....when someone learns one Linux system and/or Unix there is now ONE LESS thing to have to re-learn and that being the ins and outs of the GUI. This is something the Windows and MacOS and even ChromeOS admins and end users have never really had to deal with. Yes...yes....Windows XP/7 to Windows 8/8.1/10.....however that is not the point. There has never been an Xfce version or KDE version or Cinnamon version or Elementary version or Fluxbox version, etc.etc of Windows. Or MacOS. This fact has helped these OS's obtain and retain end users and thus build and solidify their positions in the computing world. We'll still have the flexibility of having hobbyists DE's such as KDE and Xfce and Fluxbox and Elementary, etc. That's one of the things that makes Linux great ! However....it's time for Linux and Unix to grow up and consolidate around a common end user GUI and DE. And GNOME is it. Congrats GNOME team for another win !

[aht0]

It's a GNOME module/component, does it even matter? GNOME itself is GPLv2 anyway.

I suppose it does not.

[starshipeleven]

Under which license? GPL?

It's a GNOME module/component, does it even matter? GNOME itself is GPLv2 anyway.