Originally posted by kraftman
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Originally posted by kebabbert View PostLook, you shouldnt listen to much to Linus. He is not God. Clearly, he has taken some bad decisions earlier. That is why Linux is in such terrible mess. And also he is rude and flames people. What would you consider of your manager if he told you that your recent work was crap and you are an incompetent idiot? Would you like that? No. Linus does say so, and he has attitude problems. You dont need to insult people.
And let it not be missed how much Sun enjoys attacking it's competition via blogs, so they don't have to make any official statements in this area or stand behind what they say in any official capacity. And that, my friends, makes for one big coward of a company.
http://vger.kernel.org/~davem/cgi-bin/blog.cgi/2007/04/10#bonwick_scalability
You know, you read the advertisement and everything seems fine. Then you try it and it sucks big time. Im mostly interested in real life testimonies.
I have problems with your logic, because you havent studied logic, whereas I have. If you tried study logic, you would understand why you reason strange.
I dont understand. I dont talk about "problems". What "problems" have I talked about? Could be clearer? Write things as "what problems regarding scaliblity do you mean?" Instead of "what problems?". Jesus. You ARE hard to follow.
How that's possible you're so dumb? You started talking about some problems and now you're asking? Do you expect I'll explain you a single word, because it seems you've got problems with obvious things and if you're talking nonsenses it's ok? This what problem.
Yes, but facts/claims doesnt not change.
Ok, but dont call me dumb and a troll then, for not noticing your PMs. I dont understand the necessity to fork off this discussion to PM. People that follows our debate will not understand, unless they see all arguments. "what is he talking about? I am confused. What did he wrote in PM???"
Maybe Linux would have much better code and less bugs? Linux is a mess right now, kernel dev says so.
Solaris code is mature now.
You ignored the most important thing in my response:
http://vger.kernel.org/~davem/cgi-bin/blog.cgi/2007/04/10#bonwick_scalability
I'll repeat. It unmasks Sun's propaganda and it shows this company is just bunch of cowards and maggots. Die as "sun" as possible :>
I assure you and some other idiots I won't let such FUD to be spread :>
Btw. my responses are VERY clear when compared to yours. Only chaos and bullshit.
Sure, Linux seems to run on a 1024 cpu machine, which doesnt prove anything. It only proves that Linux runs on 1024 cpu machine. But how well does it run? Is it stable?
If you want to convince me that Linux is more stable than Solaris on large systems under high load, then you have to take these steps:
1. Explain why all Linux kernel devs complain on the bad code. Come up with a good explanation. You can not just dismiss all complaints from the Linux kernel devs. Maybe the code is just bad. You have to prove that the code is not bad. For instance, by showing that all such links are jokes. Or the Linux kernel devs complaining got fired because they couldnt program at all. etc.
2. Show links that Solaris becomes unstable under high load.
P.S. Don't fool yourself by talking about Tannenbaum.Last edited by kraftman; 15 August 2009, 04:55 AM.
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Originally posted by kraftman View Postand like I said there's always known point of such discussion - you'll stick to your version I'll stick to mine and that's why I don't see too much sense in such flames. It's usually just waste of time.
Originally posted by kraftman View PostNo, you said: "If Systemtap were so good, why are there no stories when Systemtap were used successfully?"
and I wanted to show how it compares when comes to DTrace. I'm not interested in debbuging, so I left judging for you.
The thing is, I can show a totally different list that benefits DTrace where Systemtap has "no" on every feature. The point is: Such a list does not prove anything! I want testimonies. Articles. Real life stories. About Systemtap being superior, or even successfull. Ive posted such links about Solaris.
You know, you read the advertisement and everything seems fine. Then you try it and it sucks big time. Im mostly interested in real life testimonies. Reviews. etc. Dont you agree that real life stories are more interesting than a list?
Originally posted by kraftman View PostBecause there were already many flames like this one and when comes to proving something "you" can usually undermine any proof (or profff) and you'll just realize more patient or more endure person wins. Imagine, some genius will come here and he'll proof with help of Miltons model Hurd is the best. You know it's not, but what if you won't be able to show him he's wrong?
And how do you know that Hurd is not best? Maybe it is?
The truth is what counts (don't take this offensive please. It's just better to no theorize too much, because it's easy to jump into conclusions).
Originally posted by kraftman View PostYou said: "No, it doesnt work that way. Linus has control over the kernel. He might as well introduce some code that makes the kernel have problem with the non official distro. If he does that all the time, then there will be to much trouble and everyone will change to his distro."
What problems do you mean, because I'm little confused here?
Originally posted by kraftman View PostI don't know why you have problems with my logic. I already explained why I gave such links you're according to (I even said those are profffs). It was to show what your proofs means to me.
1) I am hungry, therefore I must eat to stop being hungry.
2) It is raining, therefore I will get wet if I go out.
Instead, you say things as:
1) I am hungry, therefore I must paint my house to stop being hungry.
2) It is raining, therefore I will cry to not get wet
The things you say doesnt make sense. It is hard to follow. Logically, they are wrong. Look at this:
3) Someone can not install Solaris v8, therefore Solaris is unstable under high load.
Now this is just weird to me. I dont understand your logic or your reasoning. Because in step 3) you start to reason and argue and talking about Solaris is unstable. But 3) is not true! You have not proved anything!
I have problems with your logic, because you havent studied logic, whereas I have. If you tried study logic, you would understand why you reason strange.
Originally posted by kraftman View PostThat's the point I stick with my opinions and you stick with yours. However, opinions change.
Originally posted by kraftman View PostI probably don't have any problems with logic, but when I don't take something seriously I don't care too much :>
Originally posted by kraftman View PostSorry, but you were on my ignore list, so I didn't notice. I said before why I didn't read your posts, but maybe I was wrong?
Originally posted by kraftman View PostI just supposed you can be aware of micro and macro scale models, because you've got some Masters. However, you don't have to be aware of this. You can look at some things with bigger perspective and base your opinions and you can also look at some details.
In computer science you have think at macro and micro at the same time. Also in math. Therefore you must be used to both. I am a macro guy, but learned to focus on micro also. I had a hard time when studying math and comp sci.
Originally posted by kraftman View PostIf Linus would just bought what Tannenbaum said Linux would probably be just dog slow turtle now.
Originally posted by kraftman View PostI'm according to what Linus said :> It was in Linux context, so probability? Btw. ask yourself about probability of this chance. Of course, there are some theories which can help, but I don't buy it. I don't consider Darwin being great scientist, but it's just my humble opinion.Last edited by kebabbert; 14 August 2009, 07:22 AM.
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Originally posted by kraftman View PostAt first, read a new pm please
Originally posted by kraftman View Post:> It may change your point of view by 180 degrees. I didn't suppose Sun is such bunch of maggots, but you should realize this now. Oh, if someone's interested:
http://vger.kernel.org/~davem/cgi-bin/blog.cgi/2007/04/10#bonwick_scalability
Burn Sun, burn...
And yes, RCU :>
Sure, Linux seems to run on a 1024 cpu machine, which doesnt prove anything. It only proves that Linux runs on 1024 cpu machine. But how well does it run? Is it stable? Maybe it crashes every other month? Maybe that machine is only used for number crunching and can not act as a Big Iron with lots of users at the same time? How many companies has migrated all their users to a SGI machine doing office work? I suspect noone. I strongly suspect that machine is only used for number crunching. Because if you need Big Iron serving many users, then 64 CPUs will do fine. There is no need to build a Big Iron with 1000.000 CPUs to serve some users. Nor to big a specialized expensive machine with 1024 CPUs. There are lots of 64 CPUs machines to buy, that are much cheaper.
As everyone agrees, Linux is good for number crunching because you need a stripped down simple kernel with no luggage. No one denies that. But number crunching is a simple task, and any kernel will do for that, any CPU will do for that (in fact IBM on nr5 top500 uses PowerPC 700MHz). Just stripp down the kernel a lot. Remove all bloat (you know that Linux kernel is 10 millions line of code today - that is lots of bloat. The entire Windows NT with GUI and everything were 10 millions line of code. The more bloat, the more bugs and unstable). Also you could easily strip down Solaris. I suspect Solaris would yield better performance for number crunching.
If you want to convince me that Linux is more stable than Solaris on large systems under high load, then you have to take these steps:
1. Explain why all Linux kernel devs complain on the bad code. Come up with a good explanation. You can not just dismiss all complaints from the Linux kernel devs. Maybe the code is just bad. You have to prove that the code is not bad. For instance, by showing that all such links are jokes. Or the Linux kernel devs complaining got fired because they couldnt program at all. etc.
2. Show links that Solaris becomes unstable under high load.
Whereas I have to take these steps:
1. Show links that people and companies says that Solaris is more stable than Linux, and scales better.
2. ???
I have done step 1) which is easy. There are lots of testimonies. What step should I take in 2) you think, to convince you? Or is it impossible to convince you?
Regarding "burn Sun burn", that is fine. You can think that if you wish. That is your OPINION. And everyone has right to have an opinion. Opinions can never be wrong and I can not complain on an opinion. But claims can be wrong. Do not claim that Solaris is unstable, if you can not prove that - because that is just plain wrong. Claims/facts can be wrong, opinions can not. My opinion is that SUN has released more open source than anyone else (according to studies) and that is a good thing.
I hope you agree with me on the difference between opinions and claims.
Originally posted by kraftman View PostThis is one of the things which make me just sick when comes to your logic and one of the things why I don't take your posts seriously. Imagine, there are two people. One says he's the smartest and another one says he's not so smart. The truth is the first guy is really dumb, but his ego is very big and the second guy is just humble. The similar situation can be when comes to Solaris and Linux. There's also a lot of marketing involved. Solaris is Sun's product and it's in their interest to present it from the best side and sell it. It's little different when comes to Linux, because as someone said (maybe even in one of the links you provided) Linux isn't drove by marketing rights. Of course, some people and companies can (and probably do) advertise it, because it's in their interests to sell servers with Linux preinstalled, but devs are just humble and aware of some things.
Let us discuss this point. You believe that the Linux kernel devs doesnt try to hide problems, whereas SUN tries to hide problems, right? And this is the reason there are several testimonies showing that Linux is unstable whereas there are no testimonies showing that Solaris is unstable? And this is the reason there are no links showing Solaris is unstable? And that is why you can not show me links about Solaris unstable, that I ask of?
Well, again, I dont agree with your conclusion. The thing is that SUN maybe tries to hide problems. That may be true. But the thing is that the companies that run Solaris does not try to hide problems! The sysadmin people at those companies, will complain anonymously on different forums if Solaris were crappy. And also there will be links and interviews with an "unamed" company that complains on Solaris. But still, there are no such links or testimonies or interviews showing that Solaris becomes unstable under big load! Nowhere. No anonymous postings on forums, no nothing. But there are lots showing that Linux becomes unstable.
So mr Genius, how do you explain this total lack of Solaris complaints? Is SUN threatening everone to shut up? SUN has hired some brutes that beat up everyone complaining? Why are there NO complaints on Solaris stability nowhere on earth? Is it because there are no complaints, or is it because SUN is threatening everyone?
So please post some links. There should be some links if it were true that Solaris shows problems under high load, right? There are lots of links showing people having problems with Solaris; installation, problems with ZFS, etc. But no complaints of becoming unstable under high load. Has SUN deleted all links on stability problems on large systems on the entire web, but left the minor installation problems links?
Granted, there are companies switching from Solaris to Linux, but it is because of Solaris is being more expensive (which is not true anymore), and because of politics. There are NO companies switching because Solaris doesnt cut it anymore, because Solaris becomes unstable. No such companies. My Fortune500 company is switching some systems to Linux, but it is because of politics. Solaris has run well earlier. No problems. (I suspect there will be more problems with Linux, because of changing API/ABI, upgrades can not be done easily, etc).
Mr Genius, how do you explain this? Are "Linux devs humble and Solaris devs tries to hide things"? In fact, have you read the open source Solaris mail lists? There are lots of bugs and problems there too, in fact, the last 2 OpenSolaris builds were skipped because of bugs (OpenSolaris builds come every other week). No one is saying that Solaris is bug free, because it is not. But we say that the Solaris code and design is better, and there are less bugs than in Linux. That is all we are saying. We dont say Solaris is the best OS there is.
Originally posted by kraftman View PostI'm not interested in providing you such links. I'm more interested in showing you Linux scales great. Someone else said there are problems with Solaris when comes to big loads,
Originally posted by kraftman View PostHowever, when there's migration there must be reasons.
Originally posted by kraftman View PostNo, I gave more benchmarks - Big Tux up to 64 CPUs and running old Linux kernel - 2.6.8 and another one is with up to 32 CPUs. Maybe I gave some more, but you can easily check (I don't keep them ). Those are evidences which fully satisfy me
Ok, I show you one link on Solaris being better on something, then you must draw the conclusion that Solaris is always better on everything? Would you accept that? No, you wouldnt. Why do you accept a few benchmarks and believe Linux scales well, then? Scaling well on one/few benchmarks is one thing - but it does not prove anything! Didnt you know that?
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At first, read a new pm please :> It may change your point of view by 180 degrees. I didn't suppose Sun is such bunch of maggots, but you should realize this now. Oh, if someone's interested:
http://vger.kernel.org/~davem/cgi-bin/blog.cgi/2007/04/10#bonwick_scalability
Burn Sun, burn...
And yes, RCU :>
Originally posted by kebabbert View PostMaybe it is a Linux fanboy parade here? Ive posted several different links from Linux kernel devs showing that Linux kernel code quality is not good, and what is your response to those links? You just dismiss the statements from the Linux kernel devs! Now what is that? Fanboyism or what? Even if Linus Torvalds himself said that the Linux kernel is buggy (which he has said) then you would still claim that Linux kernel is NOT buggy. Even if God himself said something about the Linux kernel you would reject that. If you dont call that fanboyism, I dont what it is.
If you post links about Solaris becoming unstable under high loads on large Enterprise systems, I have to reconsider. I have told you this several times and asked you to post such links. How many times have I said that? Many times. You have claimed that several times, but never showed any evidence to your claims.
I show critical thinking, asking for evidence, willing to reconsider if I see evidence. You are not willing to reconsider no matter what evidence. Nothing I can say, or Linus T can say, or all Linux kernel devs say, can make you change your mind. And you call ME the fanboy? You know, some people would consider YOU as the fanboy here.
Did you show that? I missed that. You only showed one benchmark on a small 32 CPU system. Please post those links again, where you show that Linux scales well on Big Iron.
Maybe you missed that Linux people tend to brag about when Linux achieved a milestone or done something cool. So if there were lots of stories about Systemtap, then we would have seen those. But where are they?
I dont get this. Why do you post these links? What is your purpose? What are you trying to prove? Are you trying to prove that Systemtap is superioer to DTrace? If you want to say something, say it clear. And why do you mention this other utility? Do you want to prove that there are better utilities than DTrace?
and I wanted to show how it compares when comes to DTrace. I'm not interested in debbuging, so I left judging for you.
I dont understand anything. What are you trying to say? Why do you always have to be so fuzzy?
I dont understand. SUN controls Solaris, and big difference to what? What do you mean with "official kernel distro"? What is your point here? Are you trying to say that Linux is successfull because of it has a official kernel distro? I dont understand. What is your point with this paragraph? What are you trying to prove?
What problems do you mean, because I'm little confused here?
Great. Dont you know that it is hard to distinguish sarcasm from sheer stupidity merely by reading a post? Have you not read that you must be very clear on email and such, because the small nuances disappear? Didnt you know this? Great. Look, you must be clearer with your sarcasm. Insert sarcasm tags.
BTW, I have problem following your logic. Not anything with your sarcasm. For instance, you want to prove that Solaris becomes unstable under high load, and you prove that by showing links to someone having trouble installing Solaris v8! And the discussion about DTrace, you posted a comparison list on DTrace and Systemtap. What were you trying to say with that list?...
So showing a biased list of features doesnt show that Systemtap is better than DTrace. Maybe you knew that. Or maybe your logic is weird.
No, but it will make your statements about me being dumb, childish.
You should study mathematical logic. Is there any other logic, maybe? Maybe then your replies would make sense. Right now, you write weird things as "yes I agree on that but disagree on this" - without explaining what "this" is or what "that" is. You are very hard to understand and your logic is just plain wrong.
Maybe you should read my posts? I wrote that I didnt notice any PMs to me, until just recently when you wrote that I ignored your PMs. I did not ignore your PM. I didnt notice. There is no popup or anything. I told you that I read your PMs now. Why dont you read my posts?
What are you talking about? Which models can I choose from? You have only described one model. Why do you have so much trouble making sense?
What mentality? What are you talking about? "Mentality counts" regarding what? Regarding programming? Or just in general? What do you mean? Shit man, you are lost. Totally utterly lost.
Eh, no. Are you kidding me? Dont you know that according to one of the greatest scientists ever, it is pure chance that directs evolution. Pure probability. Nothing intelligent. Havent you heard about Darwin? Have you missed school?Last edited by kraftman; 13 August 2009, 05:02 PM.
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Originally posted by kraftman View PostEasy, this is sometimes true, but not suitable for this topic :> Here's rather Solaris fanboys parade :P
If you post links about Solaris becoming unstable under high loads on large Enterprise systems, I have to reconsider. I have told you this several times and asked you to post such links. How many times have I said that? Many times. You have claimed that several times, but never showed any evidence to your claims.
I show critical thinking, asking for evidence, willing to reconsider if I see evidence. You are not willing to reconsider no matter what evidence. Nothing I can say, or Linus T can say, or all Linux kernel devs say, can make you change your mind. And you call ME the fanboy? You know, some people would consider YOU as the fanboy here.
Originally posted by kraftman View PostIt seems you still don't understand a thing. I actually showed you Linux scales great on big irons, so what's the problem?
Originally posted by kraftman View PostStories are only at sun.com or freebsd.org. It's sometimes very funny to read such things. However, many *BSD devs are very friendly and just smart. They're conscious of things you don't understand and that's why I don't even want to talk with you, but if you write such bull all the time... About such stories, benchmarks against other systems, it's a little unprofessional IMHO.
Originally posted by kraftman View Post
I dont understand anything. What are you trying to say? Why do you always have to be so fuzzy?
Originally posted by kraftman View PostAsk yourself who controls Solaris or *BSD then... Very big difference. What's the official Kernel distro?
Originally posted by kraftman View PostYou can even have a black cat, but it looks you're dumb like hell. You know what the sarcasm means? Maybe that's why I'm hard to understand to you sometimes.
BTW, I have problem following your logic. Not anything with your sarcasm. For instance, you want to prove that Solaris becomes unstable under high load, and you prove that by showing links to someone having trouble installing Solaris v8! And the discussion about DTrace, you posted a comparison list on DTrace and Systemtap. What were you trying to say with that list? That Systemtap has more features and therefore is better? No, you can not be that dumb. Because the number of features doesnt make a product great. And that list was tailored to Systemtap's features. A DTrace list would look different because that list would focus on different things. And you can use DTrace on production. Maybe I am wrong on this, but as I have heard, Systemtap requires you to recompile that program you want to examine. You need not to do that with DTrace. And Systemtap can crash the system, DTrace can not.
So showing a biased list of features doesnt show that Systemtap is better than DTrace. Maybe you knew that. Or maybe your logic is weird.
Originally posted by kraftman View PostBtw. mentioning you've got some Masters is even more childlish then your arguments. Do you consider it will make you look smarter?
Originally posted by kraftman View PostBtw. can you name those people who had troubles? Yotambien, Frantaylor and you?
Originally posted by kraftman View PostWhat logic should I study? To realize you're just giving more fuel into the fire? I know this, but you're doing this in such funny way, so I can't resist to not reply sometimes :P
Originally posted by kraftman View PostBtw. can you explain why you ignored very friendly pm (second time, you probably forgot, but long ago I also sent you one which you ignored too and if I'll drill a little we'll probably see a trolls face, am I right? :>)?
Originally posted by kraftman View PostYou see, it's good to look at some things from bigger perspective and then drill into the details. What model do you prefer Master (you really should understand this one)?
Originally posted by kraftman View PostP.S. Tannenbaum probably also had some Masters, but mentality is what counts.
Originally posted by kraftman View PostBut isn't there someone intelligent who directs evolution into proper direction and eventually corrects its mistakes? :>
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Originally posted by bridgman View Posthttp://www.xkcd.org/619/
@Yotambien
Easy, this is sometimes true, but not suitable for this topic :> Here's rather Solaris fanboys parade :P
@Kebbabert
It seems you still don't understand a thing. I actually showed you Linux scales great on big irons, so what's the problem?
If Systemtap were so good, why are there no stories when Systemtap were used successfully? There are no such stories...
write such bull all the time... About such stories, benchmarks against other systems, it's a little unprofessional IMHO.
As I mentioned before I'm not interested in debugging, so think what you want about this. There's also another utility, but like I mentioned...
No, it doesnt work that way. Linus has control over the kernel. He might as well introduce some code that makes the kernel have problem with the non official distro. If he does that all the time, then there will be to much trouble and everyone will change to his distro.
Anyone has a hard time to follow your weird logic and reasoning. Not just me. I have a double Masters, one in comp sci and one in math. I understand more things than you do. You should study some logic. Seriously. You are hard to understand.
Btw. can you explain why you ignored very friendly pm (second time, you probably forgot, but long ago I also sent you one which you ignored too and if I'll drill a little we'll probably see a trolls face, am I right? :>)? You see, it's good to look at some things from bigger perspective and then drill into the details. What model do you prefer Master (you really should understand this one)?
P.S. Tannenbaum probably also had some Masters, but mentality is what counts.
P.S. 2
Linux is evolution, not intelligent designLast edited by kraftman; 12 August 2009, 10:54 AM.
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Oh, my, this opens a whole new can of worms...
WARNING: may not be suitable for the humour impaired.
http://http://www.adequacy.org/stories/2002.1.2.14159.23968.html
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Originally posted by kraftman View PostYeah TOP-500 where Linux killed Solaris (incredibly quick IMO). The same situation is probably when comes to 'big irons', but it looks we can have endless discussion here... If XEN will be merged it's possible other systems will loose it, because it must satisfy Linux's kernel standards and thus it has to be modified (maybe there's another possibility, but this one is what I read). If this happen we'll probably have similar situation like when comes to TOP-500.
Linux on those supercomputers are stripped down. Try to strip down the Solaris kernel. It will be difficult, because it is so complex. Of course SUN could strip down Solaris kernel to do simple number crunching on top500, but that is pointless. You dont need a complex kernel to do number crunching. You need a stripped down kernel with no luggage, where everything is thrown out. Which kernel is easiest to tailor to do one task? A simple Linux kernel or a highly complex Solaris kernel?
Nr5 on Top500 uses 700MHz PowerPC cpus - does that mean that the CPU is fast? No, it is logically wrong to generalize from top500 observations. I suggest you study logic, as you have numerous times showed flawed logic. For instance, you want to prove that Solaris becomes unstable on large systems, and you show links to someone having problem with installing Solaris 8?? You need logic studies, then your posts would be more relevant. As of now they are weird.
Originally posted by kraftman View PostHahaha, i.e. Linux's RCU (and then hierarchical RCU) is something you can dream about as Solaris or *BSD, or whatever user (if you have a lot of CPUs).
But... but... if RCU is so good, why does Linux scale bad, then? Why does Linux become unstable under high load, then? Linux can use any technique, but it wont help. Linux is still unstable and scales bad on big iron. But Linux scales well on large clusters.
Originally posted by kraftman View PostLinux follows in some ways, because like I mentioned before they aren't reinventing the wheel and they make new stuff also.
Originally posted by kraftman View PostYou're saying something opposite to what you were claiming before.
Originally posted by kraftman View PostThe most important Linux's merits are performance, scalability and flexibility (and license).
Scalability: Yes, Linux scales very well on clusters. But sucks on large computers.
Flexibility: Agreed. Linux exists on far more platforms than Solaris. But is it easy to port? Maybe there are lots of ugly hacks you have to do to port Linux, as the Linux kernel code is messy (the Linux kernel devs say).
The Solaris kernel code is very well structured and not a mess. The hardware dependent code is isolated, this makes it easy to port to new CPUs. But the code was closed earlier, and SUN were not interested in porting the code. Does that mean that Solaris is not flexible? No.
Originally posted by kraftman View PostHowever, can you backup your statement?
BTW, have you backed up ANY of your statements? You ask me to back up, but have you? No. Great.
Originally posted by kraftman View PostYou don't expect someone will give you counterarguments if you didn't give any, right? DTrace? I say Systemtap.
-DTrace for Linux
-Like Systemtap?
-No, like DTrace.
-Like Systemtap, but not crap.
If Systemtap were so good, why are there no stories when Systemtap were used successfully? There are no such stories, or? OTOH, there are lots of stories where DTrace saved the day:
This came up on osnews.com and I was bored so I decided to anwser the question with links availible from the web, this just scratches the se...
Here are some things that DTrace can do, and Systemtap can not:
Here is a short summary of what it does better. These are taken from Solaris Dynamic Tracing Guide [sun.com]. I originally created this for...
Invoking Systemtap can crash the system that is being investigated. DTrace can only read, and can not crash the system. Hence, no one will invoke Systemtap on a production machine. But there are no problems with DTrace:
Linux just follows and copies. It doesnt do anything new cool stuff like DTrace, Zones, or ZFS.
Originally posted by kraftman View PostYou can do the same with *BSD code and you can even close it, but question is why almost nobody's interested? :> And no anyone, it must be good.
Originally posted by kraftman View PostYou already proved you don't understand obvious things.
Originally posted by Apopas View PostThe only reason the users will abandon every other distro for the one Torvalds recommends, will be that the Torvalds-dist will meet their needs while the rest won't. But if ever Torvalds says something like that then the only thing he will succeed will be to divide the community in two parts. 1% will use his Linux till it totally dies along with his reputation and 99% will use Linux2 which will just be the fork and continuation of Linux as we know it now. That's the power of GPL!
SUN has the same position. There are lots of Solaris distros now: OpenSolaris, Belenix (which is Ubuntu environment but with the Solaris kernel + ZFS + DTrace + etc), Milax, Korona, Aurorax, Schillix, etc etc etc. If someone needs Solaris distro, which distro do they choose, you think? SUN's distro or some random person's distro? There are lots of forks, and all companies will choose the official distro: OpenSolaris. No other company can come and fork OpenSolaris and make a fortune, because SUN owns Solaris.
But Linux is ok. There is no official Linux distro. Anyone can make a distro, and companies can buy which Linux distro they want. There is no THE one and only Linux distro. This is the reason Linux is successfull. Money drives it all.
Originally posted by Apopas View PostSo you say here Linux has not stable API and that sucks because there is not stable API...
Originally posted by Apopas View PostHuh? What small desktops are you talking about? Are there one hundred around the world? As RealNC said once "Solaris for desktop is like mustard for ice-cream"
Originally posted by Apopas View PostYeah, that's obvious, only Solaris evolves...
I am claiming that it IS possible to have good backwards compatibility and also invent new hot technology at the same time. Good compatibility and new tech are not opposite. You can have them both at the same time. Which Solaris proves.
Originally posted by Apopas View PostAgain I didn't say such a thing but anyway I'm not either confused or biased
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