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OpenIndiana 2020.10 Released For Continuing Where OpenSolaris Left Off

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  • #11
    Originally posted by Space Heater View Post

    You do realize skeevy420 was talking about Oracle Solaris 11.4, which is emphatically not an open source project, right?
    You do realize I meant more than one user? It's particular pattern of Phoronix, ANYTHING not systemd/Linux gets shitmouthed all the time.

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    • #12
      Originally posted by aht0 View Post
      You do realize I meant more than one user? It's particular pattern of Phoronix, ANYTHING not systemd/Linux gets shitmouthed all the time.
      Are you ignoring the entire cult of anti-systemd users? Admittingly they're nothing more than a few toddlers having a tantrum these days.
      The anti-systemd kids are just as bad as people who worship systemd (although it's hard to tell those apart from normal people who just want things standardized and usable). It's two sides of the same coin.
      Also I'm pretty sure there's plenty of people here who are plenty critical of Linux. It's just that, besides the BSDs, most other alternative OSes are borderline toys. I've never really seen anyone fervently call Linux the best OS ever.
      You're really over-generalizing this forum's userbase.

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      • #13
        Originally posted by aht0 View Post
        You do realize I meant more than one user? It's particular pattern of Phoronix, ANYTHING not systemd/Linux gets shitmouthed all the time.
        No, I did not realize you were ranting about perceived slights that are unrelated to any post in this thread. Thanks for clarifying.

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        • #14
          Originally posted by Ironmask View Post

          Are you ignoring the entire cult of anti-systemd users? Admittingly they're nothing more than a few toddlers having a tantrum these days.
          The anti-systemd kids are just as bad as people who worship systemd (although it's hard to tell those apart from normal people who just want things standardized and usable). It's two sides of the same coin.
          Also I'm pretty sure there's plenty of people here who are plenty critical of Linux. It's just that, besides the BSDs, most other alternative OSes are borderline toys.
          If by that you're including Linux in the "toy" category, you have that the wrong way round: For most normal people the BSDs are various levels of PITA just to set up: OpenBSD, although slow because of all the security features, is best, although most normal users wouldn't want to use the default twm and xenodm, or go through the hoops (remember, I'm talking about the normal people here, the people who might want to use an alternative to Windows or MacOS but don't want to learn everything there is to know about Un*x) to install a desktop environment, browser, etc. Then, FreeBSD, which doesn't include a GUI at all in its default setup and which until recently didn't even do 802.11ac or -n. Then there's NetBSD, which didn't work on either of my laptops until recently and on which once it started playing ball I still could not figure out how to get wireless working, because (unlike the other two) the documentation is spotty at best. Throw in bad QA for derivatives like FuryBSD (which didn't even boot last time I tried it) and GhostBSD (which installed fine, then completely munged a package update last time I tried that), and most people will be much happier with Linux. And that's all on ThinkPads, which as we all know have been very good for Linux support since long before Lenovo started supplying Fedora and Ubuntu with them.

          *Maybe* a compsci major would look at the code in Linux and cringe, and *maybe* the code in all the BSDs is beautiful (by compsci standards and/or aesthetically) by comparison, but these days you probably have to go out of your way to find a PC that doesn't work with it, and if you're building a PC yourself *and* thinking of installing Linux, you probably know enough to be careful what you buy.

          EDIT: I didn't even get to mentioning lack of proprietary software (a necessary evil even if you think all software *should* be FOSS, unless and until we get everyone migrated onto FOSS), or the fact that just about every OS innovation other than those related to security from the last 30 years has passed OpenBSD by. Don't get me wrong, (a) that's the way the developers like it and (b) I love OpenBSD, but I am a Un*x geek.

          I've never really seen anyone fervently call Linux the best OS ever.
          You're really over-generalizing this forum's userbase.
          What rock have you been hiding under?

          All that said, I was bummed not to be able to get OpenIndiana 2020.10 working on either of these machines. I've had it working before (except WiFi) but this time, no dice.
          Last edited by DKJones; 01 November 2020, 04:33 PM.

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          • #15
            Originally posted by DKJones View Post

            If by that you're including Linux in the "toy" category, you have that the wrong way round: For most normal people the BSDs are various levels of PITA just to set up: OpenBSD, although slow because of all the security features, is best, although most normal users wouldn't want to use the default twm and xenodm, or go through the hoops (remember, I'm talking about the normal people here, the people who might want to use an alternative to Windows or MacOS but don't want to learn everything there is to know about Un*x) to install a desktop environment, browser, etc. Then, FreeBSD, which doesn't include a GUI at all in its default setup and which until recently didn't even do 802.11ac or -n. Then there's NetBSD, which didn't work on either of my laptops until recently and on which once it started playing ball I still could not figure out how to get wireless working, because (unlike the other two) the documentation is spotty at best. Throw in bad QA for derivatives like FuryBSD (which didn't even boot last time I tried it) and GhostBSD (which installed fine, then completely munged a package update last time I tried that), and most people will be much happier with Linux. And that's all on ThinkPads, which as we all know have been very good for Linux support since long before Lenovo started supplying Fedora and Ubuntu with them.

            *Maybe* a compsci major would look at the code in Linux and cringe, and *maybe* the code in all the BSDs is beautiful (by compsci standards and/or aesthetically) by comparison, but these days you probably have to go out of your way to find a PC that doesn't work with it, and if you're building a PC yourself *and* thinking of installing Linux, you probably know enough to be careful what you buy.

            EDIT: I didn't even get to mentioning lack of proprietary software (a necessary evil even if you think all software *should* be FOSS, unless and until we get everyone migrated onto FOSS), or the fact that just about every OS innovation other than those related to security from the last 30 years has passed OpenBSD by. Don't get me wrong, (a) that's the way the developers like it and (b) I love OpenBSD, but I am a Un*x geek.



            What rock have you been hiding under?

            All that said, I was bummed not to be able to get OpenIndiana 2020.10 working on either of these machines. I've had it working before (except WiFi) but this time, no dice.
            When I said "most other alternative OSes are borderline toys" I implicitly excluded Linux in that, so, that giant wall of text is meaningless.

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            • #16
              Originally posted by DKJones View Post

              If by that you're including Linux in the "toy" category, you have that the wrong way round: For most normal people the BSDs are various levels of PITA just to set up: OpenBSD, although slow because of all the security features, is best, although most normal users wouldn't want to use the default twm and xenodm, or go through the hoops (remember, I'm talking about the normal people here, the people who might want to use an alternative to Windows or MacOS but don't want to learn everything there is to know about Un*x) to install a desktop environment, browser, etc. Then, FreeBSD, which doesn't include a GUI at all in its default setup and which until recently didn't even do 802.11ac or -n. Then there's NetBSD, which didn't work on either of my laptops until recently and on which once it started playing ball I still could not figure out how to get wireless working, because (unlike the other two) the documentation is spotty at best. Throw in bad QA for derivatives like FuryBSD (which didn't even boot last time I tried it) and GhostBSD (which installed fine, then completely munged a package update last time I tried that), and most people will be much happier with Linux. And that's all on ThinkPads, which as we all know have been very good for Linux support since long before Lenovo started supplying Fedora and Ubuntu with them.

              *Maybe* a compsci major would look at the code in Linux and cringe, and *maybe* the code in all the BSDs is beautiful (by compsci standards and/or aesthetically) by comparison, but these days you probably have to go out of your way to find a PC that doesn't work with it, and if you're building a PC yourself *and* thinking of installing Linux, you probably know enough to be careful what you buy.

              EDIT: I didn't even get to mentioning lack of proprietary software (a necessary evil even if you think all software *should* be FOSS, unless and until we get everyone migrated onto FOSS), or the fact that just about every OS innovation other than those related to security from the last 30 years has passed OpenBSD by. Don't get me wrong, (a) that's the way the developers like it and (b) I love OpenBSD, but I am a Un*x geek.



              What rock have you been hiding under?

              All that said, I was bummed not to be able to get OpenIndiana 2020.10 working on either of these machines. I've had it working before (except WiFi) but this time, no dice.
              Yes the *BSDs are harder to install and have less hardware support but that doesn't mean they aren't great. FreeBSD 9 or 10 powers the PS4, FreeBSD 12 powers the PS5, FreeBSD derived pfsense and OPNsense power firewalls and routers in many homes and businesses, FreeNAS/TrueNAS powers many a NAS unit and if I recall from my university storage class is maybe even the basis of a few commercial options, Juniper switches and routers use a modified FreeBSD operating system, Mac OS X ships with some FreeBSD code. OpenBSD powers many a thinkpad and has a cult following not to mention is used in many edge servers and routers and firewalls as well and is the source of many well know projects like OpenSSH and tmux. I would NEVER consider the BSDs toys.

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              • #17
                Serious question, how is the security on an Illuminos based OSes like OpenIndiana? Do they have a lot of vulnerabilities and if so are the fixed in a timely fashion with the number of developers they have?

                Comment


                • #18
                  Originally posted by Space Heater View Post

                  You do realize skeevy420 was talking about Oracle Solaris 11.4, which is emphatically not an open source project, right?
                  The worst part is I really didn't say one thing good or bad about Oracle Solaris aside from those numbers that I though were funny; especially when out of context like with their dev build to customer ratio. What if Red Hat came out and said "We have 50 customers and 175 beta isos."? If Ubuntu, Steam, or any other software vendor bragged about their 50+ customers we'd be having a field day. If Windows 10 only had 53 customers we'd either be on Windows 11 or they'd revert us back to 7 by now.

                  Yes, fun police, I'm fully aware that 1 customer can mean hundreds of thousands of PCs under contract or that certified packages aren't like how Debian splits packages up to inflate their numbers to 50000-someodd packages. Y'all really know how to make a person's shit week worse.

                  I also found aht0's rant pretty damn funny in an ironic sort of way. I'm usually one of the people that gives praise and cheer to the non-Linux OSs around here, so when one of my dumb, either you laugh or you don't comments derails a thread like this and even brings out both sides of the systemd brigade in a frickin Solaris thread, well, isn't it ironic, don't you think? Like 10000 spoons when all you need is a fork bomb. So how many of y'all have an Alanis Morissette earwig now? You're welcome.

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                  • #19
                    Originally posted by kylew77 View Post
                    Serious question, how is the security on an Illuminos based OSes like OpenIndiana? Do they have a lot of vulnerabilities and if so are the fixed in a timely fashion with the number of developers they have?
                    I was kind of wondering the same thing and, somewhat related to that, if they're gonna do what OpenZFS did and just say "f it" in regards to keeping compatible with upstream Solaris and just do their own thing.

                    Comment


                    • #20
                      Originally posted by skeevy420 View Post
                      I was kind of wondering the same thing and, somewhat related to that, if they're gonna do what OpenZFS did and just say "f it" in regards to keeping compatible with upstream Solaris and just do their own thing.
                      Since Solaris is now closed, maintaining on-disk compatibility would require not doing anything (or at least not finalizing anything) until it's been done by Oracle. Oracle really isn't "upstream" anymore; there are likely far more developers working on OpenZFS than Oracle ZFS; and Oracle prioritizes different features.

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