Raspberry Pi Zero W Announced

[ldo17]

Is the original Raspberry π 0 still the only computer ever given away on the cover of a magazine?

[starshipeleven]

Not sure why you mentioned Mali.

Because a GPU it's the main reason to get a total crap naked board like that instead of far-more-bang-for-your-buck options as said above. Like for example GL-inet mini-wifi routers https://www.gl-inet.com/
or a VoCore.

[schmidtbag]

It's just one of many Allwinner thingies with Mali GPU.

And? I'm pretty sure people who want the Pi Zero don't care that much about GPU acceleration. They're interested because it packs a powerful punch in a small size; good for stuff like IoT and embedded devices. If you just want a small PC, even a Pandaboard is plenty small enough to hide behind/inside something. If that's too big, Hardkernel offers plenty of really small but very practical boards like the U3 or C1.

[macemoneta]

Because a GPU it's the main reason to get a total crap naked board like that instead of far-more-bang-for-your-buck options as said above. Like for example GL-inet mini-wifi routers https://www.gl-inet.com/
or a VoCore.

It's fine for running a desktop like LXDE or Xfce or LXQt. Most people use these SBC headless as small servers. If you want a Kodi box you'd be better off with a RPi3.

[starshipeleven]

And? I'm pretty sure people who want the Pi Zero don't care that much about GPU acceleration.

I think I said already that Pi Zero is worth it only if you need its GPU, while for a headless system there are *far* better choices that may even just not have any GPU at all.

[willmore]

It's fine for running a desktop like LXDE or Xfce or LXQt. Most people use these SBC headless as small servers. If you want a Kodi box you'd be better off with a RPi3.

You'd be better off with a board with a better set of video decoders--like an ODROID C1 or C2. The Pi's can't do H.265 decode.

[schmidtbag]

I think I said already that Pi Zero is worth it only if you need its GPU, while for a headless system there are *far* better choices that may even just not have any GPU at all.

That's ridiculous - by that argument, there are also *far* better choices than a Pi Zero for displays. For example, any of the Android-based TV sticks. That being said, name just 1 product that is better than a Pi Zero for headless systems. Remember, better has to mean you can't sacrifice things like price, GPIO, processing power, size, etc. Taking wifi, bluetooth, availability, and community support into account too and these are what gives the Zero an edge over the competition. So, a Beaglebone or an Arduino Gallileo are not better than a Pi Zero, because they're both much larger and a lot more expensive.

[starshipeleven]

That's ridiculous - by that argument, there are also *far* better choices than a Pi Zero for displays. For example, any of the Android-based TV sticks.

Yup, a commandeered (or even just running Android) Rockchip-based mediacenter has always been better than that.

It is not ridicolous, it's just because you are making a comparison between a purpose-built device and a devboard whose job is having the most possible connectivity. The purpose-built device will always be better in its intended purpose.

That being said, name just 1 product that is better than a Pi Zero for headless systems.

I already did a few posts above. In most projects you don't need 10 GPIO, AND wifi AND bluetooth AND a camera port AND a GPU AND a HDMI AND whatever-the fuck else, so depending on the project you can sacrifice some of that and get some (far) more useful ports for your use case instead. Because all the stuff in there that is pointless for your specific use case is wasted.

For a basic envelope of 30-40$ (actual price of a Zero if you factor in a case, a PSU and shipping) I already said some devices that would fit the bill for most headless embedded projects (especially GL-inet minirouters).

If you are just experimenting, then yes having the most flexible system is best as it's going to be reconfigured and reused for the next tinkering and test and whatever.

[schmidtbag]

Yup, a commandeered (or even just running Android) Rockchip-based mediacenter has always been better than that.

It is not ridicolous, it's just because you are making a comparison between a purpose-built device and a devboard whose job is having the most possible connectivity. The purpose-built device will always be better in its intended purpose.

And yet you're effectively making the same argument for yourself as shown here:

I already did a few posts above. In most projects you don't need 10 GPIO, AND wifi AND bluetooth AND a camera port AND a GPU AND a HDMI AND whatever-the fuck else, so depending on the project you can sacrifice some of that and get some (far) more useful ports for your use case instead. Because all the stuff in there that is pointless for your specific use case is wasted.

That router isn't comparable to a Pi Zero. It isn't intended to serve the same purposes. Based on what you were saying before, you're concluding the primary reason to use a Pi Zero over those GLi products is the HDMI, and that just simply isn't the case. GPU aside, the Zero can do things that those mini-routers can't and vise versa.
The VoCore is far more comparable to the Pi Zero, and something I would consider a direct competitor. I would not consider it a better product, just simply a different one. I would consider them both equally as good.

For a basic envelope of 30-40$ (actual price of a Zero if you factor in a case, a PSU and shipping) I already said some devices that would fit the bill for most headless embedded projects (especially GL-inet minirouters).

That's assuming you're trying to make a Zero into a mini router, which to me is a stupid idea. I don't know why someone would buy a Zero specifically to turn it into a router. If they did it as a side project because they didn't know what else to do with it, that's a different story. That's kind of like buying a Mustang and using it's power to tow trailers - you can do it. It's not much more expensive than a truck with equal power, and assuming you don't rip the body apart the car should handle it just fine, but it's not a good reason to buy that car.

If you are just experimenting, then yes having the most flexible system is best as it's going to be reconfigured and reused for the next tinkering and test and whatever.

And that's what the Zero is meant to be - it's kind of a general purpose mini PC that appeals to those who are seeking to do tiny embedded devices. There isn't a reason to buy a Zero over larger alternatives if you're not going to take advantage of its size. If you're using it as a desktop PC or HTPC, you're not taking advantage of its size any better than you could a regular Pi.

[starshipeleven]

And yet you're effectively making the same argument for yourself as shown here:

No, I'm saying the same thing. Embedded is about cutting features you don't need to save money.

That router isn't comparable to a Pi Zero.

You said headless embedded. These things offer 2-4 GPIO and i2c interface (depending on model), which is on average what you really need in an embedded project for a few buttons and leds and some sensors or something, I have yet to find use for 10+ GPIO like on a raspi.

It isn't intended to serve the same purposes.

Yeah, the fact that they expose some GPIO and i2c interfaces on the board and also advertise it in the product specs is completely unintentional. These are clearly networking-only devices, and I'm wrong when I use them for embedded projects and connect sensors and buttons to these interfaces.

GPU aside, the Zero can do things that those mini-routers can't and vise versa.

Like? Apart from offering a ton of GPIOs that I'm unsure on how to use and a camera interface that can be dealt with by USB too, what does it really offer more?

The VoCore is far more comparable to the Pi Zero, and something I would consider a direct competitor. I would not consider it a better product, just simply a different one. I would consider them both equally as good.

Sorry, but we were talking of headless usage, so the main selling point of Raspi (the GPU) is not used. VoCore 2 has up to 2 true 100M ethernet ports, and can also have a pcie x1 port, plus SD and USB and some other stuff like GPIO and i2c and whatever.
For headless usage it is plain better than raspi zero.

That's kind of like buying a Mustang and using it's power to tow trailers - you can do it. It's not much more expensive than a truck with equal power, and assuming you don't rip the body apart the car should handle it just fine, but it's not a good reason to buy that car.

Please note, the SoC on those routers is perfectly fine for IoT usage, and the same that is used on Carambola 2, which is a IoT devboard big as a stamp http://www.8devices.com/products/carambola-2

And that's what the Zero is meant to be - it's kind of a general purpose mini PC that appeals to those who are seeking to do tiny embedded devices. There isn't a reason to buy a Zero over larger alternatives if you're not going to take advantage of its size.

Meh, it's not like the minirouters are so much larger anyway (a few cm larger).

If you're using it as a desktop PC or HTPC, you're not taking advantage of its size any better than you could a regular Pi.

Nor if you connect it to true screens where its display controller is actually useful, as those can hide even a full raspi 3.