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  • #71
    Originally posted by dee. View Post
    Preorders sold out, probably will sell a lot more once they release. Jolla is doing it right - they got their own OS running on their own hardware, they have the carriers, partners, investors etc. - everything Canonical still haven't been able to manage. Jolla is showing that it's not because it's too hard or impossible to bring a new Linux-based phone on the market, it can be done if you actually know what you're doing, and there's still plenty of growth potential left in the smartphone market, meaning a well-timed new brand can easily carve a niche in it. Of course, Jolla has the advantage of all the expertise of the people driven away from Nokia by the M$ coup...

    Seriously, I feel bad for Canonical - I'd love to have seen them succeed with their phone. But they made the entirely wrong moves, tried to imitate the big players (Android, Apple) too much, instead of taking advantage of their strengths. Instead of seeing the community as a strength, they went to the opposite direction, and shut away the community, trying to build their own little walled garden - while Jolla actually sees the community as an asset and knows how to utilize it.
    i was Reading on a Site and it said the Vendor who makes the Jolla Phone has around a 50k Min just to make phone's so they maybe have sold 50k just from there site No IndieGOGO BS and thats 50k Jolla Phones just on the pre orders maybe we will see a Sailfish OS for Desktops some day

    not the same site but the one i was on is not English Friendly http://tech2.in.com/news/smartphones...ibility/911768
    Last edited by LinuxGamer; 08-21-2013, 10:26 AM.

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    • #72
      Originally posted by dee. View Post
      Preorders sold out, probably will sell a lot more once they release. Jolla is doing it right - they got their own OS running on their own hardware, they have the carriers, partners, investors etc. - everything Canonical still haven't been able to manage. Jolla is showing that it's not because it's too hard or impossible to bring a new Linux-based phone on the market, it can be done if you actually know what you're doing, and there's still plenty of growth potential left in the smartphone market, meaning a well-timed new brand can easily carve a niche in it. Of course, Jolla has the advantage of all the expertise of the people driven away from Nokia by the M$ coup...

      Seriously, I feel bad for Canonical - I'd love to have seen them succeed with their phone. But they made the entirely wrong moves, tried to imitate the big players (Android, Apple) too much, instead of taking advantage of their strengths. Instead of seeing the community as a strength, they went to the opposite direction, and shut away the community, trying to build their own little walled garden - while Jolla actually sees the community as an asset and knows how to utilize it.
      I'd be surpised if Canonical actually consulted some crowdfunding experts. The campaign was extremely mismanaged.

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      • #73
        Originally posted by blackout23 View Post
        I'd be surpised if Canonical actually consulted some crowdfunding experts. The campaign was extremely mismanaged.
        not really it got the job done it was a really Huge Ubuntu/Canonical AD and it was on most any site you go to also it was all over TV as well it was just a bad Project no one really wants a Ubuntu Phone and for 700$ LOL look at the FireFox Phone's and Jolla Phone's they can't even keep them in Stock also they don't even really have to put out a lot of AD's like Canonical Did for what the Last 5 years? for the Ubuntu Phone

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        • #74
          Originally posted by LinuxGamer View Post
          not really it got the job done it was a really Huge Ubuntu/Canonical AD and it was on most any site you go to also it was all over TV as well it was just a bad Project no one really wants a Ubuntu Phone and for 700$ LOL look at the FireFox Phone's and Jolla Phone's they can't even keep them in Stock also they don't even really have to put out a lot of AD's like Canonical Did for what the Last 5 years? for the Ubuntu Phone
          I'm talking about the whole price up and downs.

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          • #75
            Originally posted by chrisb View Post
            There is no "in between" when it comes to the campaign. It either succeeds or fails. Yes or no. You asserted that it failed because some proportion of users did not support it because of Mir. That position implies that it would have succeeded if it used Wayland. On the other hand, if that is not your position, then you must conclude that the campaign would have failed even if they used Wayland, and hence the "negative contribution" of Mir to the campaign was negligible, as the campaign would have failed anyway due to other reasons.

            Basically I take issue with the assumptions that 50000 Linux users would preorder a phone that is twice the price of a Nexus 4, but two thirds decided not to because of Mir.
            "Among those Linux enthusiast, the proportion who base their choice of phone on the Mir debacle is not negligible anymore." - there is no evidence that this statement is true. It is much more likely that people were put off by the high price and unknown hardware and unknown future delivery date. But if you honestly do not believe that, then I encourage you to start your own campaign for a Manjaro/Mint phone. Nobody is forcing you to support Ubuntu.
            I asserted that it would have done better if not for the Mir debacle. No less, no more.
            It would also have done better with lower price, better spec, or more marketing, but that is in no way incompatible with my point.
            And obviously there are in betweens even for a campaign, in terms of positive media coverage and demonstration of consumer interest, and these two points are quite correlated to the pledged amount. Given that Canonical can fund itself, I'd say that these aspects are actually much more important than actually getting the funds.

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            • #76
              Probably joining internet.org could help a little?

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              • #77
                Originally posted by chrisb View Post
                You asserted that it failed because some proportion of users did not support it because of Mir. That position implies that it would have succeeded if it used Wayland.
                No, I think the assertion was that it failed because it is by Canonical, and Canonical has managed to piss off its target audience in several ways, Mir being but one. So that implies that it would have succeeded if Canonical had not been behind it. The launch numbers of Jolla should give us some clue in this regard. As it stands I can't find a source saying how many pre-orders it has had.

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                • #78
                  I'm not sure that selling 50k phones should be put in the category of "hella popular".

                  BlackBerry probably sold that many Z10 phones in its first day, and the Z10 is decidedly not "hella popular".

                  This kinda comes off as the usual Linux geek delusions of grandeur that seem so common.

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                  • #79
                    Originally posted by chrisb View Post
                    There is no "in between" when it comes to the campaign. It either succeeds or fails. Yes or no. You asserted that it failed because some proportion of users did not support it because of Mir. That position implies that it would have succeeded if it used Wayland. On the other hand, if that is not your position, then you must conclude that the campaign would have failed even if they used Wayland, and hence the "negative contribution" of Mir to the campaign was negligible, as the campaign would have failed anyway due to other reasons.
                    Nopes - Mir is one reason, but there are other bad decisions made by Canonical that managed to alienate the community, which could potentially have backed this up. It's like, everyone has a fault tolerance, and when you pile on the damage, eventually comes the point when an individual's fault tolerance is exceeded. First came some only mildly shitty stuff, mismanagement of Unity/Upstart/PulseAudio, some people's fault tolerance was exceeded but not so many.

                    Then we got the amazon adware, later named "SmartScopes" which was handled spectacularly badly, it's seriously like they wanted to piss off people - just make it opt-in ffs, no one could have complained too much that way, and the revenue would probably have been much the same, but the perception would have been loads better. At this point, more people's fault tolerance was exceeded - including mine, I switched to another distro at this point.

                    And THEN, just when we thought Canonical couldn't possibly do anything stupider, they revealed Mir. Not only that, but they mismanaged the whole thing horribly, by spreading lies and FUD about Wayland - thus losing any and all possible higher-road-advantages in any future debate, because it meant that everyone could then always honestly say that it was Canonical who started the mudslinging. Not only is Mir technically unnecessary, divisive, harmful to the ecosystem et c. but it also showed the world that you really, really can't trust anything Shuttleworth says - he may promise one thing and a week later change his mind if he happens to consider it profitable. Again, many more people's fault tolerance was exceeded. Many more people lost their trust in Canonical.

                    In between all those there are some smaller blunders, such as the whole "skunkworks" deal (and again, they had to badmouth Fedora/Red Hat in the process, just not classy), the suspicious closing of the #1 bug, but these were all much smaller things in the grand scale of things... however, even small things add up when you pile them on. The stupidest part is that all of these blunders were avoidable. They could very easily have been avoided.

                    Basically I take issue with the assumptions that 50000 Linux users would preorder a phone that is twice the price of a Nexus 4, but two thirds decided not to because of Mir.
                    Hell yes they would. Linux enthusiasts have cash to spare. Do you see how good job prospects are for Linux experts? Companies are fighting tooth and nail to throw money at anyone who knows their Linux. Even less-expert Linux users are often not exactly poor. Just look at the Humble Bundle statistics, Linux users invariably pay more on average than either windows or mac users. It's not unrealistic at all to see 50k Linux users paying $600-700 for a phone.

                    "Among those Linux enthusiast, the proportion who base their choice of phone on the Mir debacle is not negligible anymore." - there is no evidence that this statement is true. It is much more likely that people were put off by the high price and unknown hardware and unknown future delivery date. But if you honestly do not believe that, then I encourage you to start your own campaign for a Manjaro/Mint phone. Nobody is forcing you to support Ubuntu.
                    A Mint phone would be silly, Mint is a desktop OS and has no interest in anything mobile. They choose to focus in one type of device (desktop/laptop computer) and do it well, without having to compromise desktop usability to accommodate for phablet users. I'm not sure about Manjaro, but I suspect similar concerns would apply there as well.

                    Me starting a crowdsourcing campaign would also be kind of silly - partly because I live in Finland, where we have some very, very outdated fundraising laws, that render most types of crowdfunding campaigns illegal - but mostly, because I don't really have the resources, contacts or knowledge to put together a phone even if I had the money to do so. It's better to leave it to someone who actually has a chance of accomplishing it. However if I were to do it, I wouldn't use any desktop Linux distro, I'd use something Mer-based, possibly running Plasma Active or Nemo, on top of Wayland - or possibly Tizen, except with all the Samsung's Flora-licensed apps swapped out for something less patent-trappy.

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                    • #80
                      Originally posted by dee. View Post
                      Do you see how good job prospects are for Linux experts? Companies are fighting tooth and nail to throw money at anyone who knows their Linux.
                      Link?

                      Just look at the Humble Bundle statistics, Linux users invariably pay more on average than either windows or mac users.
                      This is because Notch goes in there and drops a million or so for the Linux side. It kinda skews the average big-time.

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