If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.
No announcement yet.
Canonical Plans For Usable Ubuntu Phone By Month's End
Why does nobody simply treat smartphones as computers?! Why is it soooo hard to just make a useful phone?
Well, phones are more like plastic toys rather than good devices, it is many useless things in one. the only plus in it is that it is mobile, and its its job is to be able to call and send sms, for everything else i can get much better devices for the same price.
If "they" (some company) made a phone that has:
1. Touch screen;
2. Nokia E7-00 style slider qwerty keyboard;
3. Proprietary firmware (across all components or not) or open (unlocked/not secured);
4. Fully open source Linux drivers (not counting firmware, like AMD Radeon);
5. GNU toolchain;
6. Proprietary Navtaq and Whatsapp app;
7. Build in VoIP;
8. Open document XML WYSIWYG editor;
9. Free and proprietary codecs;
10. Webkit2 browser.
Sounds more or less what the Jolla phone is going to be. Mer is already doing point #5.
It has XMir which lets you able to run X11 applications on your desktop.Secondly Ubuntu is distribution and not some rouge OS detached from Linux ecosystem.
You're right, Ubuntu is not a rouge OS, it's a purple OS But no, Ubuntu is moving so far away from standard GNU/Linux that it's hardly fair to call it a GNU/Linux distribution, and it's by far not a good example of GNU/Linux as a whole. So it is detached from the GNU/Linux platform, or at least getting more and more detached as time goes.
Separate software would be a disaster for Ubuntu derivative/ Desktop users
Let's get real: phone and desktop are two different devices. I don't have a smartphone or tablet for security reasons, but I've seen them. Cinnamon(like on my desktops) or IceWM (as on my netbook) would be a total disaster on a smartphone, and I consider a phone UI on a big desktop, with deep menu nesting, online search, and large distances to mouse across to reach icons to be nearly as bad on the desktop. The best thing that could happen would be for Ubuntu and Mint to join forces, with Mint aimed at Desktop users and at desktop derivatives, while Ubuntu aims at going head to head with Google and Crapple in the smartphone/tablet market. To do this require some attention to compatability, making sure that no core package in the base Ubuntu system locks out X, Wayland, or any known desktop environment. Real core stuff like libc6, QT, and GTK etc needs to stay 100% compatable!
Ubuntu has abandoned the way of the desktop Linux ecosystem. It may have a Linux kernel, for now, but it is moving away from being a part of the ecosystem. Soon, we will have separate software for Ubuntu and other Linux distros, just like we already have separate software for Android. Just because something has a Linux kernel doesn't mean it's part of the desktop Linux ecosystem.
For Ubuntu to remain intercompatable with its own derivatives, to avoid forcing everyone from Ubuntustudio to Mint to rebase on Debian only, and to avoid forcing authors of things like Audacity and Kdenlive to write for yet another OS, Ubuntu will need to meet these requirements:
1: No top level application that might be used by a derivative should depend on Unity, Mir, or Ubuntu-only libraries but can recommend them.
2: No core Ubuntu library should conflict with/prevent the installation of another desktop environment or applications used elsewhere in the Linux
ecosystem. Right now this is not a problem, but I worry about the future.
Some GNOME apps as now compiled by Ubuntu do not now meet the first test. Brasero, for instance, when pulled from Ubuntu repos depends on libunity9, libunity-common, and libunity-protocal-private0. Surely the default GNOME version does not, as these are Ubuntu-specific packages. Right now that's no big deal, but suppose in the futire Unity depends on Mir, and Mir conflicts with, say, a driver needed by X, Wayland, or whatever Cinnamon, MATE, or Icewm users need to run their systems. All this would require in my case would be two different and conflicting versions of the Radeon driver, plus a libunity dependency on Mir.
This situation would force every Ubuntu derivative such as Ubuntustudio and of course external ones liike Mint to recompile every package that depends on any component of Unity that pulls in conflicting libraries, My guess is this is why Mint maintains an "insurance" version based only on Debian, which would not be broken by such a situation. Alternately, they would have to mix repos, preferring ubuntu versions except where conflicting with a "core" package, and that can get ugly fast.
The separate application installation folders resolve that problem only for applications, not for the core system, and any attempt to run the core system that way would lead to a huge installed OS that would not fit on small "boot-drive" SSD's. I can fit three different installs of my personal fork of Ubuntu and Mint onto a 32GB SSD right now,
Maybe Ubuntu and Ubuntu phone need to be split into two different projects that do NOT to be totally compatable with oneanother? Ubuntu phone would only need to work on ARM for the most part, while ubuntu and its derivatives would have to support the other architectures and could also support ARM if desired. Otherwise we might end up segmenting the greater Linux ecosystem across all classes of machine, this on top of the "secure boot" fiasco with its quirks that make some machines that are supposed to be able to boot any OS only able to boot Windoze 8, or at best Windoze 8, Ubuntu, and RHEL.
Speaking of Windoze 8, that is doing to Microsoft what the Unity and Gnome-shell controversies did to their developers: drive off desktop users who do not want to use a touch-based, small form factor optimized UI on their desktops. Just like Gnome-shell has the frippery extensions and the Cinnamon fork, MS now has tons of aftermarket "start buttons" to revert the UI changes they made. Their "Metro" UI is almost universally blamed for the terrible reception Windoze 8 has gotten from its users.
You're right, Ubuntu is not a rouge OS, it's a purple OS. But no, Ubuntu is moving so far away from standard GNU/Linux that it's hardly fair to call it a GNU/Linux distribution, and it's by far not a good example of GNU/Linux as a whole. So it is detached from the GNU/Linux platform, or at least getting more and more detached as time goes.
It still uses standard GNU/Linux tools, GNU/Linux isn't bound to use systemd and Xorg. The definition is very broad and as far as most of the community can see, Ubuntu still stays within those bounds.
Also, I got rid of your emoticon, no person who is trying to have a serious discussion or at least put on the fa?ade that they're older than 15 years uses them, in any context.
All the trolls use them, and they serve no purpose on this forum.
And why so defensive? I can hardly see why someone could get so jumpy about a little criticism.
Well, in your dying mind, smiles are everywhere, on every forum, on every mobile phone and so on, why the hell do you think people made smiles ? I can say the same about linux, why not just remove it from world, it is only used by trolls anyway, so.... And kid or adult, it doesnt matter, what matters, that you are troll, that doesnt understand anything.