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The Leading Cause Of The Recent Linux Kernel Power Problems

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  • #71
    Originally posted by mistvieh View Post
    I think you are just confusing it with the DSDT table..
    ahh my bad...but can you hack the other tables and override it in the kernel like with DSDT?

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    • #72
      Originally posted by krazy View Post
      I'd just like to say, however, that calling this a "Kernel Regression" seems fairly disingenuous. This is a BIOS bug, only seen in machines with a buggy BIOS.
      Seeing how rears its head with a change in the kernel code pretty much solidifies it as a kernel regression as it is the kernel determining how to handle the situation and it's solution is to handle it with a workaround that degrades the performance of its power handling.

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      • #73
        Originally posted by krazy View Post
        Thanks for your work in figuring out what is going on here Michael.

        I'd just like to say, however, that calling this a "Kernel Regression" seems fairly disingenuous. This is a BIOS bug, only seen in machines with a buggy BIOS. And I'd be interested to know how common this problem even is, since none of my machines have exhibited the issue.
        This is a regression in system behavior that is caused by a change committed to the kernel. The buggy BIOS existed previously, but the bug was exposed to the end user via the kernel change.

        Arguments on the high or low moral ground of the kernel carrying workarounds isn't going to solve this for anyone.

        In this situation, there are a few options,

        1. revert the change (which we had been carrying for some before hand)
        2. Understand the interaction more fully (obviously the systems work de-facto or de-jure under Windows so there should be some system behavior that allows it to work).
        3. Keep the change and add one more to the list of workarounds for BIOSes and hope that vendors improve in the future.

        I'd personally opt for 2, with either 1 or 3 being up to the developer - erring on the side of 1.

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        • #74
          That's why I am not suffering from this bug.

          I always disable the pci/e power management features, to disable the high pitching noice.

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          • #75
            For me it's now clear that is a hardware/firmware vendor failure. If the BIOS reports that the system does'n support ASPM, logic here says not to enable it.

            If the kernel developers decide to implement some other logic to enable it even when no support is reported, we can only be grateful with them.

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            • #76
              Re: hardware, it looks like several models of Lenovo Thinkpad are affected (my T410 is, and I've seen a W520 mentioned here as well as Michael's T61).

              TODO (perhaps I'll have a go later if no one else does): mention on ThinkWiki.

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              • #77
                My mother's Acer Aspire overheated when running 2.6.38, but my HP Pavilion dv6700 doesn't suffer much from the power problems; HP has always been friendly to Linux and after a BIOS update (and sometimes even right out-of-the-box) they seem to have proper FADT tables on quite some models.

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                • #78
                  Originally posted by Cyborg16 View Post
                  Re: hardware, it looks like several models of Lenovo Thinkpad are affected (my T410 is, and I've seen a W520 mentioned here as well as Michael's T61).
                  .
                  So, how do we Thinkpad users handle this? Stick together and talk to Lenovo? I mean, if only one talks to them claiming new tables they will simply laugh at you.

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                  • #79
                    Originally posted by krazy View Post
                    Thanks for your work in figuring out what is going on here Michael.

                    I'd just like to say, however, that calling this a "Kernel Regression" seems fairly disingenuous. This is a BIOS bug, only seen in machines with a buggy BIOS. And I'd be interested to know how common this problem even is, since none of my machines have exhibited the issue.
                    Originally posted by smitty3268 View Post
                    It would be interesting if everyone with the problem could post their what BIOS they are using and the MB manufacturer. To see if there's a common theme.
                    Yes, please do so!

                    I'm sorry but I can't help you with that, because none of my machines are affected by this problem either.

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                    • #80
                      Originally posted by Rabauke View Post
                      So, how do we Thinkpad users handle this? Stick together and talk to Lenovo? I mean, if only one talks to them claiming new tables they will simply laugh at you.
                      MS talks to them. Linux should too. That's why Bill Gates said that MS does all the work but Linux gets it ready-made without doing the work. He has a point, you know. Every technology out there that Linux tries to support was mostly started by MS.

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