The $199 Motile M141 With AMD Ryzen 3 3200U Offers Surprisingly Decent Performance

[coder]

Modern laptop CPUs have thermal goals and power management controllers, and they are pretty good at it.

I presume he didn't run these benchmarks on battery, so that should eliminate the bulk of the power management from the picture (except to the extent it's used as a proxy for thermal management).

As long as the OEM sets these tables properly it will never show high temps.

I don't believe it's (entirely) a matter of a less efficient thermal solution leading to lower boost values. That could be, but not enough to explain the performance difference in spite of the cores' relative efficiency differences. On that point, here's what Anandtech found:





Source: https://www.anandtech.com/show/14664...ce-lake-10nm/4

There you have it. The integer performance of the i7-1065G7 is around 31.7% to 33.4% more efficient than that of a i7-8550U. In Michael's two build performance benchmarks of these exact same models, the latter was 53.7% and 57.6% faster than the Ice Lake - Dell implementations of each! And the Ice Lake even had 2x the RAM!

Note that these graphs also include Zen2 cores, whereas the Motile laptop is based on Zen1.

I've seen enough laptops where the heatsink fan just stopped working and the temps are still perfectly fine (while performance tanks hard).

If something like that happened, then his benchmarks are invalid and he should fix his laptop.

It seems like you agree that something is fundamentally wrong with those results. Do you not?

[starshipeleven]

Michael is the temperature data logged, anywhere?

I didn't explain myself: you don't always see temps rising, you see the performance tanking, and probably CPU freq is lower.
Modern laptop CPUs have thermal goals and power management controllers, and they are pretty good at it. As long as the OEM sets these tables properly it will never show high temps.
I've seen enough laptops where the heatsink fan just stopped working and the temps are still perfectly fine (while performance tanks hard).

[Michael]

Michael is the temperature data logged, anywhere? What about dmiinfo, so we can see how many DIMMs it's using and their speeds?

You've got to admit, those build benchmark results were very weird - the Ice Lake i7 got smoked even by a Coffee Lake i5! Both Dells!

Once we've ruled out the obvious culprits, another thing to consider is whether it's a kernel revision affected by this bug:

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...rallel-Job-Opt

...although I thought that was mainly affecting much higher-core-count CPUs.

I didn't do temp monitoring as part of this run, but as mentioned, the Dell XPS Coffee and Ice Lake models (among others) are easily impacted by thermal throttling. That is the issue with these build times, if I didn't mention it in this article I've mentioned it many times before that for this XPS even with Icelake thermal throttling during benchmarking is very easy to occur.

And for this Ice Lake laptop it is dual channel memory. (Sadly due to dmidecode requiring root access, the DIMM module info isn't displayed on PTS results aside from when running it as root.)

[coder]

it all comes down to how good is the heatsink, as the i7 WILL limit itself well before temperature rises because the OEM has set the performance tables to do so.

Also it's entirely possible to have i7 laptops with a single RAM slot too (I have seen enough),

Michael is the temperature data logged, anywhere? What about dmiinfo, so we can see how many DIMMs it's using and their speeds?

You've got to admit, those build benchmark results were very weird - the Ice Lake i7 got smoked even by a Coffee Lake i5! Both Dells!

Once we've ruled out the obvious culprits, another thing to consider is whether it's a kernel revision affected by this bug:

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Linux-Pipe-Parallel-Job-Opt

...although I thought that was mainly affecting much higher-core-count CPUs.

[starshipeleven]

Wow, what the heck is going on with the Kernel Compilation & Build2 benchmarks? There's no way this 2-core Zen1+ laptop should basically equal a 4-core 8-thread Ice Lake! Could an i7 laptop possibly be using only a single memory channel?

it all comes down to how good is the heatsink, as the i7 WILL limit itself well before temperature rises because the OEM has set the performance tables to do so.

Also it's entirely possible to have i7 laptops with a single RAM slot too (I have seen enough), especially Lenovo, that's a ghetto way of product segmentation.
(the non-ghetto way of product segmentation is to have BIOS restrictions like HP does, the hardware can support 32GB fine, but if you install more than the "allowed" amount of RAM in the laptop it will just "nope!" you and refuse to boot. This is not related to using "hp-approved" RAM as you are free to use any RAM you want, the limitation is on size)

[coder]

Wow, looks like we got some WWIII up in this thread!

Europe DESTROYED our economy. Several generations have now seen their job, house, children and ultimately future disappear, in favor of Germany and the northern countries.

Beware of populist politicians and their simplistic explanations. In the long run, they are nearly always bad news. Examples abound.

Also, beware of confirmation bias. Scientists long ago figured out that the best way to test a theory is to try (really hard) to disprove it. The same applies to economics or any other theory.

Although you can't easily conduct controlled economics experiments, on a large scale, there are massive amounts of data from which some reasonably robust conclusions can be drawn. This is what a lot of economists do, nowadays. So, your best resource in trying to diagnose and address systemic problems would be to look to the academic literature (or at least reading what leading economists are writing for broader audiences).

I don't really have a stake in this issue, other than my concerns over the rise of populism. I'm on a different continent, and we have our own problems.

[coder]

I love how it's the Ice Lake that overheats.

Where is that shown?

[coder]

Wow, what the heck is going on with the Kernel Compilation & Build2 benchmarks? There's no way this 2-core Zen1+ laptop should basically equal a 4-core 8-thread Ice Lake! Could an i7 laptop possibly be using only a single memory channel?

Please put aside any AMD partisanship and think logically.

[tweak42]

It's been like that for years, but laptop manufacturers still crammed huge (1-2TB usually) internal hard drives in a craptop or trashbook as a way to attract customers.
When instead they should have pushed people to be rely on an external drive for their stuff as these laptops fail reliably in 3-4 years of use and most people don't have the basic skill (and know what a sata-usb adapter even is) to actually take out the drive out of the dead junk their laptop became to save their data.

That would have costed a pretty penny for this price range. Dual sockets are starting to be rarer in 800$ price range laptops too.

I don't believe the actual engineering and BOM cost to add a second ram socket would add much to the price of any laptop. Unfortunately ANY added cost could turn the average Walmart consumer to a competing model because they wouldn't know the value proposition difference. Sad but true, gotta pay $$$ for products without shaved corners.

[Brutalix]

You are mixing the European Union (also called 4th Reich) with the European Economic Community.

Now let's really get back to leenux pls.

First I would love to get that linux laptop, but its very difficult to get hold of here in Europe, have anyone seen this for sale over in Europe?


To the EU discussion.

I believe I am not mixing the different names. EU is based on the EEC. The inner market, though heavily expanded and revised are based on the EEC.

https://europa.eu/european-union/about-eu/history_en#1980-1989

EEC - EC - EU.

And claiming that Italy was great in the 80's. With 21 % inflation?.... And claiming that you had better living standards than West-Germany. Perhaps northern italy, not
southern. Your corruption and mafia is legendary, lowest birth rate in Europe, failed implementation of politics by overbureaucratizing every govermental department is what I believe is Italy's biggest problem. And including one major obstacle is too high taxes for the middle class, and too low on the top 1%. Leading to tax evasion, failed govermental budgets, inflation etc. . The most effective prime minister you had was Monti.

Kind regards from an ignorant non-eu member european.
B.