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  • #41
    Originally posted by JanW View Post
    starshipeleven Yes, I have a 97Wh battery in my Dell. For the Clevo I have seen 57Wh quoted elsewhere, but I guess 62 or 57 does not really matter. It's small. The Clevo is an almost-always-plugged gaming machine of which no one expects significant battery life.

    From my perspective, MindShareManagement may be wrong about the needs of their target market. Professionals buying a Laptop do not buy it because they sometimes prefer to sit on the sofa with it for two hours. They travel, they work on-site, they go to conferences and trade shows. If you don't get through a work day of very light usage while having the computing power once you plug in, you lose many potential customers. Say what you will about Apple, they do understand their target market, and there is a reason they offer adequate battery life.
    But what's the use of a laptop that lasts all day if the keyboard is broken by design? (referring to the previous-gen butterfly keys)

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    • #42
      Originally posted by kpedersen View Post

      If mobility is needed, a *nix focused company will supply their "highly paid professionals" with a Thinkpad.

      Other than high compatibility with Linux/BSD, there is nothing exceptional about a Thinkpad and this choice by companies is mostly down to this but nonetheless, you have no market unless you can provide something of more value than this.

      (The Thinkpad is only well supported with Linux because naturally many developers have these devices (because of the good support) and use it as a point of reference for future improvements causing this endless cycle that Lenovo is greatly benefiting from. You will find it very hard to break into this monopoly).

      Which leads me to believe that if you can't compete with the latter market; possibly you could market these certified "Linux gaming laptops" towards the "beginner zealots" who want to move away from Windows but don't necessarily yet realize the issues with ME or proprietary blobs. I believe there truly is a market in "Microsoft Escapees". However you might want to approach them in a slightly more friendly and fun manner.
      Not to mention the keyboard. Yes, I'm a diehard Linux user so compatibility is important, but the second main reason I got a ThinkPad is because of the amazing keyboard.
      Last edited by Vistaus; 12-18-2019, 03:36 PM.

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      • #43
        Originally posted by Vistaus View Post

        Not to mention the keyboard. Yes, I'm a diehard Linux user so compatibility is important, but the second main reason I got a ThinkPad was because of the amazing keyboard.
        Heh true. I personally don't think the keyboards are quite as good as they once were but they are still years ahead of existing modern laptops (which have gotten worse still!)

        Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
        The ME can contact aliens with a beam of psychic energy.
        Originally posted by N/A
        The ME is only there to improve the security and privacy of the consumers.
        If one of these statements had to be true... I would definitely have to go for the first XD
        Last edited by kpedersen; 12-18-2019, 02:36 PM.

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        • #44
          Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
          He is talking of the more "free" type of workers, artists and freelancers that are the backbone of Apple's reputation and brand recognition.
          And yes, they commonly value long battery life.

          If it wasn't for them that set the brand as desirable, the corporate drones you mention would be tapping away on HP or Dell laptops instead.
          I'm a freelancer, but I can't live without a ThinkPad and Linux. Though I *will* use the Planet Computers Cosmo Communicator for part of my activities, but still, no MBP here. Never.
          Last edited by Vistaus; 12-18-2019, 03:33 PM.

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          • #45
            Originally posted by kpedersen View Post

            Heh true. I personally don't think the keyboards are quite as good as they once were but they are still years ahead of existing modern laptops (which have gotten worse still!)
            Fully agree with you! +100

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            • #46
              Originally posted by Vistaus View Post
              But what's the use of a laptop that lasts all day if the keyboard is broken by design? (referring to the previous-gen butterfly keys)
              The choice of the high-capacity battery predates the butterfly keys keyboard by like 5 years. Also I'm sure they are all using it wrong. Don't type too much on it, jeez.

              Still, for commercial contracts (i.e. if you are not a private person) you can get contracts where they give you a new 3k euro MBP every 2 years and repair any damage to the product at no additional cost. At least where I live. It's not cheap, granted, but it is much cheaper than buying the hardware yourself (and you must be a company, and you must have 3-4 people minimum)
              Last edited by starshipeleven; 12-18-2019, 03:35 PM.

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              • #47
                Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
                The choice of the high-capacity battery predates the butterfly keys keyboard by like 5 years.
                That wasn't my point.

                Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
                Also I'm sure they are all using it wrong.
                Right. So Apple changed the mechanism in the current gen because of user errors.

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                • #48
                  Originally posted by madscientist159 View Post
                  That said, I don't see any claims of a " disabled" ME on that page. I do see highly questionable claims of "open" and "secure" firmware (the ME is closed, signed, and locked, so not open or externally auditable at all) but no claims worse than that are immediately obvious.
                  Here you go.

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                  • #49
                    Originally posted by madscientist159 View Post
                    I don't agree with that.
                    You are wrong.

                    I try to do both;
                    Oh I do both too. Activities that I don't want Big Brother to see don't involve computing devices. Critical information is not stored on digital medium. If possible it is not stored at all.

                    Perhaps not, but I also know I'm allowed to patch and modify the kernel as events transpire.
                    This does NOT give you any guarantee of 100% security either.
                    Listen I'm not the one posting bullshit requirements, you are.

                    Actually, yes, there is certainly legal recourse for defective POWER systems. You can sue for hardware defects, and often win, but in general that is not the case for licensed software like the ME.
                    You can sue for ME too, as it is not licensed software. It is signed by Intel, only Intel is responsible for what it does.

                    So you advocate no proactive security measures?
                    There is a difference between proactive security and raging paranoia. Coming up with bullshit theories about how everything can be against you is pointless. There is no indication that the ME isn't disabled after you set the "disable" config option. It is the best that can be done without going on a Power or even Risc-V system, spending a fortune and ending with a device that fits in an ATX case or is just a powerful microcontroller.

                    Interesting. With POWER an open ISA etc., what would you be looking for in addition?
                    Full silicon schematics, of the entire die. The Verilog or whatever foundry-specific "language" the CPU is actually designed in.

                    It's not a matter of capability, but of trust. The CPU is a black box. Since we are into the "raging paranoia mode" you should not trust a book written by the vendor telling you "these are the instructions you can use", what if the little shit has added more instructions, more special registers, that are disclosed only to "privileged parties"?

                    See this lecture for example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XH0F9r0siTI

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                    • #50
                      Originally posted by Vistaus View Post
                      That wasn't my point.
                      Your point about keyboard quality is irrelevant to what we were making. In a good laptop used by professionals a good battery is important.

                      Apple is commonly regarded as a "good laptop used by professionals on the go" in many fields and they do have a big battery by default to at least try to look like they are made for that.

                      Right. So Apple changed the mechanism in the current gen because of user errors.
                      Yes, some ideas may be too revolutionary even for Apple and they have to rollback to still be understood and appreciated by their audience.

                      For example the old gen Mac Pro (the trashcan thing, you know) was too revolutionary for its times too, and now they rolled back to something more conventional with their latest Mac Pro.

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