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Librem 5 Will Begin Shipping In The Weeks Ahead, But Varying Quality Over Months Ahead

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  • #81
    Originally posted by LoveRPi View Post
    You can't fix a fundamentally "broken" timer. The upstream merged workaround still doesn't fix the problem completely. There are many dfiferent workarounds for the A64 timer randomness but it's a tradeoff between merge-ability, excessive CPU time, userspace hackery, and the relative "brokeness" of the clock.
    The reality here is those work around thing don't work perfectly but it still works.

    Originally posted by LoveRPi View Post
    We are yuq's sponsor for the lima project among many other open source projects in the ARM space. We only work with hard facts. Vivante is far superior to Utgard. Vivante has a solid Mesa Gallium3D GL 2.0 and GLES 2.0 driver. Utgard has a demo driver that can only run kmscube. There's still at least two man years of work per yuq.
    Created by: anarsoul Lima driver does clear unconditionally for each frame and it breaks EGL_BUFFER_PRESERVED. As result, weston doesn't work properly - screen has to...

    problem here is lightly functional mali is not 2 years away. 2 years way todo everything mali 400 can yes. Enough to run a 2d phone interface and do basic development work is here now.

    Originally posted by LoveRPi View Post
    "Unfortunately, smartphone FCC and CE certifications are a different ball game compared to standard electronic devices"
    Where's the certifications for Pine64's WiFi modules? Reckless disregard is a moral hazard.

    Sometimes you need to know the approval process.

    Originally posted by LoveRPi View Post
    This does not exist and will not exist. To quote you proverbially: "Stop speaking out your ass." Fanboy-ism helps nobody.
    No stop being a idiot. FCC regulation is stupid. The device needs one FCC ID and a stack of TCB certificates. Stupid as it sounds a Wifi module due to being a add on part to known board only needs a TCB linked to the FCC ID of the boards it going to be used with. Of course this is a ass when someone wants to use that wifi board connected to another makers board. So a wifi board/module having a FCC ID is optional as long as the over all device has a FCC ID. Having a TCB certificate cover wifi module is not optional.

    So this is a case that something does not exist because it does not need to legally exist. Of course for those wishing to reuse the parts being made by pine if their wifi module had a stand alone fcc id it would be nice but its not a legal requirement to ship devices.

    Please note there are laptops sold in the USA where the m.2 wifi card does not have a FCC ID but the laptop itself has a FCC ID and it legal because that card TCB has been linked to the laptops FCC ID. So a laptop vendor might have like 8 supplies of wifi cards and gets TCBs on all of them and linked that to 1 FCC ID on the device. Yes this can work out cheaper than getting all the cards unique FCC ID. So what pine has done is not unique to pine.

    Please note there is a second horrible to the USA FCC ID regulation you see a removable m.2 wifi module in laptop with a FCC ID number on it you look up the number and you find its the laptop number FCC ID not a module unique number as well so not legal to use with any other device. Lot of ways pine was at least well enough behaved not to just print the complete device FCC ID on the wifi module.

    FCC ID is a bureaucracy nightmare with what is legal to be done with it and how what looks legal for what you can use because it has a FCC ID printed on it is not.

    This is something people using librem 5 could basically legally hang draw and quarter themselves attempt to use random m.2 wifi cards source random-ally inside the USA. This is why pine was recommended against having removable modules in final pinephone as well as using random m.2 wifi/cellular modules in the USA FCC system is a good way to land yourself in breach of FCC rules .

    Lot of ways we can learn a lot from what Pine has legally done and those planning on using librem 5 really do need to be aware that the usable m.2 modules will be kind of restricted due to the fact you are not required to individually FCC ID wifi and cellular modules. Modules that have been bundle FCC ID will not be usable with the librem 5.

    Comment


    • #82
      Originally posted by LoveRPi View Post

      Have no fanboy-ism so don't know what you are talking about. The last few generations of RPi hardware has been mediocre at best and full of proprietary non-sense. Good job making claims without basis and contrary to fact. Anyone who thinks any thought went into "design" after taking a look at any of Pine's SBCs is delusional.

      https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-a1a2...=2?imbypass=on
      https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/18...g?v=1524512481


      Someone chewed up a bunch of ports and pin and spit it out randomly on a PCB. Anyone who knows how to design proper products will not use an SoC with a broken timer (A64).


      Facts are too hard for fanboys.
      "Have no fanboy-ism so don't know what you are talking about"...
      Of COURSE you don't, "LOVE RPi". None of you wannabe 'experts', with your endless fund of knowledge, EVER knows what someone--who calls their bluff--is talking about. EVER!

      "...Anyone who knows how to design proper products..."
      And what exactly, even remotely, does this have to do with you?

      https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-a1a2...=2?imbypass=on
      https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/18...g?v=1524512481


      And just precisely WHAT do you think you just proved by posting three PHOTOGRAPHS? Photographs, with absolutely NO EXPLANATION nor any DOCUMENTATION?! What a dumbshit, for thinking anyone would fall for this!

      "...Facts are too hard for fanboys."
      You really are a dumbshit. A dumber-than-a-box-of-rocks dumbshit. SO dumb that you don't realize that you just crucified yourself, to wit:
      you just admitted that facts are too hard for YOU. Pathetic. You probably--no; make that "most definitely"--still don't get it.

      Quit trying to be an intellectual, and accept the fact that there are some things in this (i.e., "our"; "the rest of us") universe which are impossible.
      ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

      *"I am not one of those who in expressing opinions confine themselves to facts."--*Mark Twain*

      “‬No persons are more frequently wrong,* ‬than those who will not admit they are wrong.*” ‬
      ― François de La Rochefoucauld

      "I would like to take you seriously,* ‬but to do so would affront your intelligence.*"-- ‬William F.* ‬Buckley,* ‬Jr.*

      "Let us be thankful for the fools.* ‬But for them the rest of us could not succeed.*"--Mark Twain*

      Comment


      • #83
        Originally posted by danmcgrew View Post

        "Have no fanboy-ism so don't know what you are talking about"...
        Of COURSE you don't, "LOVE RPi". None of you wannabe 'experts', with your endless fund of knowledge, EVER knows what someone--who calls their bluff--is talking about. EVER!

        "...Anyone who knows how to design proper products..."
        And what exactly, even remotely, does this have to do with you?

        https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-a1a2...=2?imbypass=on
        https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/18...g?v=1524512481


        And just precisely WHAT do you think you just proved by posting three PHOTOGRAPHS? Photographs, with absolutely NO EXPLANATION nor any DOCUMENTATION?! What a dumbshit, for thinking anyone would fall for this!

        "...Facts are too hard for fanboys."
        You really are a *censored*. *censored*. *censored* that you don't realize that you just crucified yourself, to wit:
        you just admitted that facts are too hard for YOU. Pathetic. You probably--no; make that "most definitely"--still don't get it.

        Quit trying to be an intellectual, and accept the fact that there are some things in this (i.e., "our"; "the rest of us") universe which are impossible.
        ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

        *"I am not one of those who in expressing opinions confine themselves to facts."--*Mark Twain*

        “‬No persons are more frequently wrong,* ‬than those who will not admit they are wrong.*” ‬
        ― François de La Rochefoucauld

        "I would like to take you seriously,* ‬but to do so would affront your intelligence.*"-- ‬William F.* ‬Buckley,* ‬Jr.*

        "Let us be thankful for the fools.* ‬But for them the rest of us could not succeed.*"--Mark Twain*
        LoveRPi I don't know whether I can consider this tolerable or not. He still is assuming you're a fanboy and even insulting you this hard despite explanation.

        Comment


        • #84
          tildearrow Facts are proven wrong, goal posts get moved, devolves to name calling. This is no longer a rational exchange so I'm going to stop with this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_c...reement-en.svg

          Comment


          • #85
            Originally posted by LoveRPi View Post
            tildearrow Facts are proven wrong, goal posts get moved, devolves to name calling. This is no longer a rational exchange so I'm going to stop with this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_c...reement-en.svg
            Yes moving goal posts. The hard part is the pinephone starts 2016 and the Libre 5 only goes crowd funding end of 2017.

            Why so early pine has a 10 year supply of a64 chips and parts. Purism does not have the volume of sales to in fact get 10 years in contract supply of parts at this stage. They have not had the volume to special stuff from vendors either. A64 has limitations and is old but pine can be sure they have supply parts to fill any order. Because the pine contracts are years of supply not volume if they got a billion orders+ they would be able to get the parts and supply the devices.

            The fact Purism will be able to get a m.2 card that supports audio for phone networks is party Pine Micro-systems wanting them.

            New work by pine work is normally based on RK3399 not the A64. Yes the RK3399 is more competitive against against the chip in Librem 5.

            Lot of ways having Pine Microsystems with the hardware volume to get proper supply contracts means we have one fairly open phone that should not have problems meeting demand.

            Pine there is really good odd of there being a second generation of phone and we can already basically project what the specifications for that will be as in a RK3399 with 4G of ram.

            Its one thing to make a one phone. Its another thing to support that phone and make another one.

            A64 with all its issues is a chip that has been used in entry level smart phones in china for a while now.

            Like it or not pinephone and librem5 will have to be put head to head to each other. Pinephone is priced for its performance level. There is a question if the librem 5 is.

            Comment


            • #86
              Originally posted by oiaohm View Post
              Pinephone is priced for its performance level. There is a question if the librem 5 is.
              There is not. The Librem 5 is not priced for it's performance level. The Librem 5 is priced for it's security, privacy, and liberty. And it is the best phone on the near-future market in all of those three regards. If you thought that the price of the Librem 5 was for it's performance level then you are missing the point of the Librem 5.

              Comment


              • #87
                Originally posted by Dr. λ View Post
                There is not. The Librem 5 is not priced for it's performance level. The Librem 5 is priced for it's security, privacy, and liberty. And it is the best phone on the near-future market in all of those three regards. If you thought that the price of the Librem 5 was for it's performance level then you are missing the point of the Librem 5.
                Sorry to say Librem 5 is not best that been for those 3 points. Security privacy and liberty the best that ever been goes to the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Openmoko Openmoko made devices were even the base-band processor code was open source. Unfortunately due to the modem standards for cellular getting more restrictive they are basically bricks today in most countries due to the baseband only being able to be 2G. Yes Librem 5 found out that 3G standard you can read it but you cannot implemented it without paying out a patent fees.

                So we have already seen the result of pricing for security, privacy and liberty is a short term product before the vendors and regulators change the rules on you. Only way to block this is have enough volume in the market that the regulator will be effecting too many people.

                So those wanting a Librem 5 phone to keep on being useful need something like the pinephone priced on performance to sell volume. Yes selling volume means successfully selling to people who don't value security, privacy or liberty as highly.

                So we need a phone in ideal made for security, privacy, liberty, performance and price. So yes ideal we need to hit all 5 points. If you don't hit all 5 points history is clear item will be temporary free.

                Please note security and privacy do play into performance like how much performance is android phone in fact losing to processing items that invade users privacy.

                My problem is Librem 5 risks being a one shot item that does not sell enough volume and end up as a vendor regulated/patented out the market.

                The idea that you can price on security, privacy and liberty is a fatally flawed one in the mobile space and is basically like putting a kick me sign on your back to become a screwed over company.


                Comment


                • #88
                  Originally posted by oiaohm View Post

                  Sorry to say Librem 5 is not best that been for those 3 points. Security privacy and liberty the best that ever been goes to the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Openmoko Openmoko made devices were even the base-band processor code was open source. Unfortunately due to the modem standards for cellular getting more restrictive they are basically bricks today in most countries due to the baseband only being able to be 2G. Yes Librem 5 found out that 3G standard you can read it but you cannot implemented it without paying out a patent fees.
                  The Librem 5 has a replaceable modem allowing it the possibility to cope with this better than the Freerunner can.

                  Originally posted by oiaohm View Post
                  So we have already seen the result of pricing for security, privacy and liberty is a short term product before the vendors and regulators change the rules on you. Only way to block this is have enough volume in the market that the regulator will be effecting too many people.

                  So those wanting a Librem 5 phone to keep on being useful need something like the pinephone priced on performance to sell volume. Yes selling volume means successfully selling to people who don't value security, privacy or liberty as highly.

                  So we need a phone in ideal made for security, privacy, liberty, performance and price. So yes ideal we need to hit all 5 points. If you don't hit all 5 points history is clear item will be temporary free.

                  Please note security and privacy do play into performance like how much performance is android phone in fact losing to processing items that invade users privacy.

                  My problem is Librem 5 risks being a one shot item that does not sell enough volume and end up as a vendor regulated/patented out the market.

                  The idea that you can price on security, privacy and liberty is a fatally flawed one in the mobile space and is basically like putting a kick me sign on your back to become a screwed over company.

                  Even if this is true then that just means that our only options are no privacy or temporary privacy. That still makes the Librem 5 the best phone since in that case it clearly goes for temporary privacy.

                  Comment


                  • #89
                    Originally posted by Dr. λ View Post
                    The Librem 5 has a replaceable modem allowing it the possibility to cope with this better than the Freerunner can.
                    No it does not really do better than the Freerunner can. The pine wifi modem where the FCC ID is that of the full device says the replaceable modem feature of the Librem 5 may end up a legal brick.

                    So we still need parties doing what pine microsystems is doing of getting there own IMEI number and modems made up. Yes you have to remember IMEI numbers have to be on the carriers list as approved and it possible for the carrier to approve a m.2 card IMEI as data only even if it support voice and sms this is why there are multi levels how librem 5 can be bricked.

                    Yes carrier can for sure argue they disabled particular m.2 voice/sms features at tower by IMEI because the m.2 card was not sold for phone usage. Now pinephone integrated modem the device was sold as a phone.

                    Basically depending on who you carrier is will be if a libre5 or pinephone will work. Heck there is even a chance that neither will work because carrier effective blacklists both out of existence.

                    Originally posted by Dr. λ View Post
                    Even if this is true then that just means that our only options are no privacy or temporary privacy. That still makes the Librem 5 the best phone since in that case it clearly goes for temporary privacy.
                    Pinephone is also going in direction of temporary privacy with as much as possible. We really do need multi parties pushing the FCC and parties to get rulings in the direction of security privacy and liberty. Problem is those parties to have negotiation power with FCC and silicon makers they need volume of sales.

                    A party buying and using a pinephone or libre5 phone helps with having displayable volume of users possibly looking for security, privacy and liberty. Pinephone being possible cost effective will increase those numbers that will help in arguments with regulators and carriers.

                    Really you have underestimated how bad of a fight we are in for. Now if you carrier does not support librem 5 is not pinephone better than going back to generic android device?

                    Like it or not we need both the librem5 and pinephone configuration with modem in the current market because it going to be a up hill battle if either device works with different carriers.



                    Other than the embedded firmware in the wifi/modem devices there are already developers who have software for the pinephone that is basically as free as the Librem 5 planned offering.

                    So software difference is not that big. Now if librem 5 had option of open source 2G modern with 3g coming when patents die and so on it would make it a more interesting product.

                    Yes the neo freerunner does leave leave behind this tech.
                    Last edited by oiaohm; 09 September 2019, 07:21 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #90
                      It seems that I gave off the impression that I think getting privacy is going to be easy and that I think that the Pinephone is bad. But I know that getting privacy is an uphill battle and considering the fact that many powerful organisations —including governments— profit greatly from our lack of privacy, that does not surprise me at all. I also think that the Pinephone is a great phone and much better than both Android and Apple devices.

                      As for the Neofreerunner, I used it as my main phone in approximately 2013. It was great phone, except that it bricked itself when the battery ran completely dry. If not for that mayor design flaw I would probably still be using it since where I live we can still use GSM.

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