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Librem 5 Will Begin Shipping In The Weeks Ahead, But Varying Quality Over Months Ahead

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  • #61
    And still ... is it one of the most interesting projects in the field in recent years. I am so sick and tired of Google and Apple and Samsung et al. The hardest part is getting started... I can wait.

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    • #62
      I don't think that I have anything valuable to add to what others have already said. I backed this in the crowdfunding stage and have waited very patiently for the release! I am a person who chooses to pay a premium and "suffer" for privacy and security. I almost fell out of my chair when I saw the email from Purism in my inbox and its subject line. Once I read the details, I felt misled and a little disgusted.

      That said, I am still really, really excited about the final product. Yes, I paid for a real product and this initial release does not come anywhere near a real product and I am pretty disappointed with their continued inability to deliver on their promises. No, I am not going to give up.

      I am still really, really excited about the product and I am not 100% sure which shipping date I will choose when I am offered a choice. Freedom and privacy!

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      • #63
        Maybe I was in the wrong forums and I am sure for active backers were pretty angry about Jolla back then, but I seen not as much hate against Jolla that canceled their tablet project and gave the backers not their money back and no product. They also never delivered in opensourcing their software fully like they promised.

        Yet even when they today make some offerings for sony phones people seem to be very positive, I never saw a message "this company can't be trusted" or something like that, their transparency was clearly 1mio times worse than what librem does.

        So please don't pretend that this are the reasons you hate them so much, it's ideological reasons, you disagree with their believe in freedom and or hate gnome or are in some ubuntu (touch) camp one user even calls himself "xfceretard" there the name is apparently program.

        Some of you are probably even jellous like how do they dare to not compromise on a unfree device that just looks a bit more like linux but is exactly as unfree as Android. If you or your companies that you like can't do it they are not supposed to be successful. And not to forget you could not afford to pay 600 dollar, so if you can't have it, nobody should have it.

        Again I can't remember so much hate against Jolla, even they came close to fraud. Maybe I missed it and in the news about their sony software upgrade there were 5 sites of hate against them and that nobody should give them any money and their users are all stupid and retarded....

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        • #64
          Originally posted by blackiwid View Post
          clearly 1mio times worse than what librem does.
          What have they even done wrong? The only thing I don't really like is the over the top "revolutionary freedom of society.. whatever" talk they have to mix into every blog post.

          Appart from that they are extremely open about what they do. All their stuff is in GIT, you can watch it being made. I have never seen such detailed report on the manufacturing process all the steps of what they are doing and what the state is in any other hardware product. They are completely honest and open about it.

          Sure, the price tag may put some off, but there is a lot of R&D that goes into this and they are doing most of it in a country and in an industry where salaries are high, otherwise you just don't get the people to do it. I'm absolutely willing to pay that and if you don't, then just don't, go do something else.

          And also, WTF is wrong with all the Pine fanboys here and of reddit or wherever you go. I'm absolutely thrilled that there are multiple products in multiple segments that have somewhat similar goals and where we can support each other with building that Linux mobile eccosystem. But in every fucking thread about the Librem you have multiple people that just completely shit on the Librem5 or Purism because they are the Pine64 followers and everything has to be about some fucking stupid tribal identity this days where you have to hate on everyone not agreeing with your views. WTF is wrong with you people?

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          • #65
            I am not pretty sure about Flatpak... I have not idea how space requires APK but I have installed 6 application with Flatpak and each of them requires almost 1GB of memory...

            Code:
            $ flatpak list
            org.gimp.GIMP
            net.scribus.Scribus
            org.kde.krita
            org.freecadweb.FreeCAD
            io.atom.Atom
            
            $ du -chs /var/lib/flatpak/  
             5.0G /var/lib/flatpak/ 5.0G total
            Of course those aren't applications for a mobile but if each installation requires to bring down all the libraries with 64GB of memory you have space just for 10 applications...

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            • #66
              Originally posted by L_A_G View Post
              For those not familiar with the release state of the Jolla 1; The device was supposed to based on a Texas Instruments SoC and was even ready for mass production, but months from launch TI announced they were pulling out of the smartphone market with no warning. As a result Jolla had re-engineer the device based on a Qualcomm SoC in a crazy rush
              It was ST-Ericsson, not TI.
              Jolla could only survive the switch to Qualcomm by inventing libhybris which they have been using ever since.

              Originally posted by msotirov
              A smartphone is not a laptop replacement though. Linux is quite easy on the RAM usage. With a little custom memory management in user space, I could easily see them getting it as lightweight as iOS, which does fine on 2 GB RAM. Oh wait, pureOS is based on Gnome, then 3 Gigs might not be enough
              It is based on Gnome, but they don't use Gnome Shell, so in theory their solution could possibly use less RAM than Gnome Shell. That being said I've personally never seen Gnome Shell consume that much RAM on my system.

              Originally posted by cynical View Post
              It would be a different story if the Linux community (particularly Gnome) had cared at all about mobile, but since they do not seem to, Purism has to invent the mobile interface themselves, make the GTK widgets adaptable, fix any papercuts involved in running Linux on a mobile device, and also build the hardware and upstream drivers.
              There were attempts to do this in the past, Nokia N900 was GTK based, and did all the work to make GTK mobile friendly. However the work was never accepted upstream. Thus Purism now has to do all of it from scratch.

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by Danielsan View Post
                I am not pretty sure about Flatpak... I have not idea how space requires APK but I have installed 6 application with Flatpak and each of them requires almost 1GB of memory...

                Code:
                $ flatpak list
                org.gimp.GIMP
                net.scribus.Scribus
                org.kde.krita
                org.freecadweb.FreeCAD
                io.atom.Atom
                
                $ du -chs /var/lib/flatpak/
                5.0G /var/lib/flatpak/ 5.0G total
                Of course those aren't applications for a mobile but if each installation requires to bring down all the libraries with 64GB of memory you have space just for 10 applications...
                Only Gimp scribus and Krita have a aarch64/arm64 build they use all a different runtime. If you use more Applications you will reuse runtimes.

                Download size installation could be higher
                1. org.gnome.Platform aarch64 3.32 flathub < 342,9 MB - Locale < 319,8 MB (partial)
                4. org.gimp.GIMP aarch64 stable flathub < 102,9 MB

                1. org.kde.Platform aarch64 5.12 flathub < 381,2 MB - Locale < 334,0 MB (partial)
                3. org.kde.KStyle.Adwaita aarch64 5.12 flathub < 5,4 MB
                5. net.scribus.Scribus aarch64 stable flathub < 129,9 MB

                1. org.kde.Platform aarch64 5.11 flathub < 346,0 MB - Locale < 195,1 MB (partial)
                2. org.freedesktop.Platform.ffmpeg aarch64 1.6 flathub < 2,3 MB
                5. org.kde.krita aarch64 stable flathub < 101,2 MB - Locale < 4,6 MB (partial)
                Last edited by Toggleton; 09-06-2019, 10:20 AM.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by LoveRPi View Post
                  Hardware is easy and marginal cost. Software is upfront and difficult.
                  Hardware design is the ultimate bitch. It's like software development, but each time you compile you pay thousands of $$.

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Toggleton View Post
                    If you use more Applications you will reuse runtimes.
                    When they match otherwise you have to download another version of the same runtime...

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Danielsan View Post
                      I am not pretty sure about Flatpak... I have not idea how space requires APK but I have installed 6 application with Flatpak and each of them requires almost 1GB of memory...

                      Code:
                      $ flatpak list
                      org.gimp.GIMP
                      net.scribus.Scribus
                      org.kde.krita
                      org.freecadweb.FreeCAD
                      io.atom.Atom
                      
                      $ du -chs /var/lib/flatpak/
                      5.0G /var/lib/flatpak/ 5.0G total
                      Of course those aren't applications for a mobile but if each installation requires to bring down all the libraries with 64GB of memory you have space just for 10 applications...
                      https://blogs.gnome.org/alexl/2017/1...at-in-flatpak/

                      You are kind of way off. Flatpak does not require all applications to bring down all the libraries. flatpak is auto deduplicating. Also you have used a flag with du that can cause a miss count on ostree style directories like flatpak uses. Ostree is using hardlinks so a du '-c' flag can in fact result in counting the space multi times over.

                      "du -hs" or "du -sh" is what you use on ostree directories if you want sanity the du -chs risks badly over reporting used. The du -chs figure is useful if you want to know how big the result will be if you do a straight copy but its not useful when you are wanting to see how much storage space is in fact being used on solutions using hardlinks.

                      Closer the applications are related to each other in libraries the less disc space they use.

                      1G is fairly much worse case with flatpak per application. The 6 applications you have chosen happen to have very little overlap but even so 5G would be high and would most likely because you have passed -c flag into du and got a incorrect report by basically making the deduplicated storage report the size if it was not deduplicated.

                      32GB of storage for applications you would expect to fit at least 16 applications using flatpak most likely a lot more. Why 16 is you only have really 16G to play with the other half is for user stuff.

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