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Librem 5 Will Begin Shipping In The Weeks Ahead, But Varying Quality Over Months Ahead

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  • #51
    Originally posted by jo-erlend View Post
    Depending on the exact definition of low-quality, it wouldn't necessarily be a deal breaker for me, as this device wouldn't be my daily driver, but a development and testing device.
    are you valuing privacy during development and testing only?
    Last edited by pal666; 09-05-2019, 10:47 PM.

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    • #52
      Originally posted by Danielsan View Post
      I heard that UBports in order to work decently needs at least 4GB of ram
      Nah that is nonsense. I used Ubuntu Touch back when it was available for the Nexus 4; it worked great, and that device only had 2GB of memory.

      I think Purism is going to have a tough time because they took on too much at once. It would be a different story if the Linux community (particularly Gnome) had cared at all about mobile, but since they do not seem to, Purism has to invent the mobile interface themselves, make the GTK widgets adaptable, fix any papercuts involved in running Linux on a mobile device, and also build the hardware and upstream drivers.

      Canonical had the better approach in bootstrapping off of Android. Yeah it's not ideal from the hardware or software perspective, but you can fix the other stuff once you have a functioning mobile OS. Purism's approach will leave the OS extremely unpolished from what I can see.

      Like what about having OS images instead of updating using apt? I like apt, but it's not appropriate for a phone (imagine having to fix a botched update on a phone lol). Something like a base OS image (Fedora Silverblue/Ubuntu Core) and an app store (Flathub/Snap store) is the way to go. You simply must have atomic updates. And forcing apps to be contained by default (and very restricted) is mandatory for good battery life. You need OS-level services for applications to hook into for things like notifications or file downloads, you can't just have them doing what they want like they can on a desktop. Tight control is the only way to get reasonable behavior. Android has become stricter with every major release, but they don't go as far as I'd like tbh.

      Canonical, if I remember rightly, didn't even have background activities in Ubuntu Touch. That's a great place to start!


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      • #53
        1) No one complaining about $600 for a product that was effectively kickstarted AND kept people in the loop AND appears to actually be delivering on their promises.

        If you didn't want the phone because of specs or price, then you wouldn't have backed the project.

        And commenting on what is probably the largest Linux/open source news site about how bad this is hasn't been around in any tech thing for any amount of time. Ever try Windows Vista? 8? 98? They had all that money and resources and still ended up with that.

        And just because you set a target date doesn't mean that you can't push it back when something goes wrong, especially considering that if they don't push it back, the alternative is going bankrupt and everyone's money going to waste.

        2) Stop bringing up the Pinephone. It's like if every Debian news story had some idiot going "just run arch". We get it, you like the pinephone. If someone else is interested, they'll check it out. We don't need you preaching to the choir about the gospel of open source hardware/software. We get it. That's why we're here.

        3) The high Ram requirement is largely due to the virtual machine that android phones have to run. It's one of the reasons why iPhones have always had less RAM. Even the Windows phones had less RAM. The second reason is JavaScript and other web languages.

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        • #54
          Originally posted by cynical View Post
          Nah that is nonsense. I used Ubuntu Touch back when it was available for the Nexus 4; it worked great, and that device only had 2GB of memory.
          I heard that from an interview to one of the main developer. The question was: "what did Ubuntu Touch need in order to make it more responsive?" And the dev replied than rather to have a better CPU it needed 4GB of ram to be fully responsiveness.

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          • #55
            Originally posted by 144Hz View Post
            brent You see dishonesty. I see transparency.

            The phone or software is not even the product. They try to distribute Freedom and Privacy.
            Disclaimer: this post and user is sponsored by purism.
            i am sure you have a security audit to verify pureautisms freedom and privacy claims.

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            • #56
              Originally posted by Danielsan View Post
              I heard that from an interview to one of the main developer. The question was: "what did Ubuntu Touch need in order to make it more responsive?" And the dev replied than rather to have a better CPU it needed 4GB of ram to be fully responsiveness.
              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_Touch
              Would pay to read the hardware specs of that time frame. The A53 quad core chip in the pinephone and Librem 5 is in fact a better CPU than the Ubuntu Touch phones attempted. So both of these phones in fact have better cpu than the Ubuntu touch items did.

              Libhybris used back then with Ubuntu touch to allow usage of android graphics drivers turned out to have a ram and cpu time cost. Cost of libhybris could be subtract 0.5 to 1.5 G of ram to libhybris.

              So 3G ram Librem5 could possible match the 4G of ram ubuntu touch all due difference of native Linux graphics drivers(librem5) vs libhyrbis(android drivers wrapped ubuntu touch) for amount of ram usable by your applications and the Librem5 having lower cpu usage over head from the graphics stack as well so helping performance even more.

              https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonev...-linux-laptop/

              There are existing devices with quad core A53 with 2GB of ram. We know that its not going to be a nice if you attempt to run something way too heavy for them but they are able to be decently responsive with the right operating system. Its in fact likely you will run out of cpu before you run out of ram. Also these existing devices are more responsive than the historic Ubuntu touch devices were.

              For a general phone doing calls and some sms and light emails quad core A53 with 2-3 G of ram should be quite suitable.

              Danielsan the big thing here you don't have to really guess how bad a pinephone or librem5 will be. Items like the pinebook show us how bad/good they will be at least approximately. If you are expecting either to out run a high end device you are expecting way too much. If you are expecting a usable light usage phone both will be more than suitable. Both have enough processing power and ram to do basic things without major latency issues.

              Basically if you look at both as like the performance of entry level smartphone and that is what you expect you will not be disappointed as both will perform at that level or better.

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              • #57
                Maybe they should charge $1200USD to make sure they have enough, since it seems the people already paying 600USD don't seem to care about what they get at the end nor hardware specs and actual hardware costs.

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                • #58
                  Originally posted by theriddick View Post
                  Maybe they should charge $1200USD to make sure they have enough, since it seems the people already paying 600USD don't seem to care about what they get at the end nor hardware specs and actual hardware costs.
                  Really $1200 dollar target most phones there are about the same specifications as a 700 dollar phone. 1200 dollar would have given the space to hide the cost of being modular.

                  Some ways I agree Librem5 targeted the wrong price bracket. Instead of targeting 700 dollar price bracket targeted the 1000 dollar instead they would have had the space in budget to cover the extra costs of modular while being feature competitive with the phones in that price bracket. Target too low does mean you do have to compromise different specifications to get device out door and cover production costs.

                  But for their first phone not going all out still could turn out good in the end.

                  Like it will be possible for a librem5 to have a main-board upgradewe did see this with the Neo 1973 and the Neo Freerunner. The librem5 avoids the Neo patent wall problem to use 3g/4g with the modular design.

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                  • #59
                    Hardware is easy and marginal cost. Software is upfront and difficult. Upstream software is even more difficult and doesn't have a linear schedule. Ask any company or groups investing in upstream open source software.

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                    • #60
                      Originally posted by msotirov
                      Hmm, that's interesting then. I'd be curious to see some benchmarks comparing it to Gnome. I always wondered if Gtk itself is a pile of **** or it's just Gnome's setup of Gtk.
                      In SwayWm is wlroots really lightweight and fast

                      If you are really interested you can try the qemu image

                      https://developer.puri.sm/Librem5/De...ards/qemu.html

                      Or look this few Days old video of software on the Dev kit

                      https://youtu.be/GTDzV4rxPwc

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