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Librem 5 Will Begin Shipping In The Weeks Ahead, But Varying Quality Over Months Ahead

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  • #41
    Originally posted by 144Hz View Post
    brent Nobody cares about your 600 USD. Freedom and Privacy is paid with effort and principles.
    You cannot have freedom nor privacy with a device that has a baseband processor inside. A "free" phone is an oxymoron. If there was a version with no baseband, that device could be free.

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    • #42
      Originally posted by jo-erlend View Post

      Depending on the exact definition of low-quality, it wouldn't necessarily be a deal breaker for me, as this device wouldn't be my daily driver, but a development and testing device.

      If you mean the electronics, the specs seem plenty good enough for me.
      Oh! Sorry, I meant the body.

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      • #43
        Originally posted by DMJC View Post
        The Pine phone and the Librem5 both have the same problem: Not enough RAM. I had a Motorola Atrix phone back in 2011/2012. 1gb of ram was pathetic on a phone back then. Just as 2-3gb is pathetic now. These open source phones really need to lift the amount of RAM to 4-6GB. Especially if people want to use them as a laptop replacement. The killer app for a modern Linux phone should be to plug it into a screen/keyboard/mouse and be able to use it for programming/network engineering replacing a laptop. The problem is none of these phones have enough RAM to do that. Storage is no longer an issue. 400-500GB SDCards are cheap. The lack of RAM is a real problem. The other main use of these phones is adblock on internet connections.
        Let get realistic here. Pinephone is not stupid in ram size for it price.
        https://www.opelmobile.com.au/our-phones/smartx1/
        Entry level smart phones are still 1G of ram. Pinephone at 149 USD works out for me in Australia about 60 dollars more than a entry level phone and having twice the ram and a bigger battery.

        Pinephone is not charging high end price so you really cannot expect high end specs out of it. If you look at the pinebook and the pinebook pro we can expect after pine64 group has made this generation of pinephone if there is enough interest to make a pinephone pro with high ram/cpu down the road that will be more high end targeted with a more high end price.

        Main reason why I am interested in a pinephone is that is reasonably priced for the specifications and I might at long last have a phone that can be truly software upto date to vpn with.

        When you get to sub 200 USD phones having more than 1G of ram comes quite rare. Its normally 200-300 USD where the 2G ram phones appear so PinePhone at current projected pricing is very reasonable to being cheap for the specifications.

        Librem5 price is problematic $699 USD you are expecting something more high end. The reality is when you cross about the 300 USD point you are expecting 4G of ram. 600-700 USD you are kind of expecting between 6 to 8 G of ram. So your 4 to 6G idea for a 699 phone is on the light side.

        Now librem5 is really the first modular phone on the market in general specifications for a normal phone you would say a Librem5 phone should be like 250-400 USD. I am not sure 450-300 dollar for m.2 modules for modem/wifi are exactly worth it. Yes having m.2 modules will make the phone thicker and the case more expensive to produce and more expensive assemble.

        Phone companies gave up on making modular phones when it worked out they were going to be a lot more expensive to make.

        How pathetic something is does really need to be compared in the price bracket it owns. Pinephone I would not call pathetic as in it price bracket it quite reasonable to being quite a decently priced for what you are getting.

        Librem5 really does look over priced but it was never going to be a value phone going the modular route was always going to hurt the price.

        Pine64 if they do a higher end phone I do expect their spec to price to remain decent.

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        • #44
          Originally posted by danmcgrew View Post

          Spoller Alert!! This is NOT trolling!!

          I have a real problem here, and I would like, seriously, the advice of the tremendous amount of expertise available on this forum. It has absolutely nothing to do with Pinephones, Purism phones or any 'such-like', but only phones in general.
          It has to do with computing machines in general, and the need--or lack thereof--of the hardware power seemingly required of phones by people who are obviously much more 'in the know' than I am.
          I've been in this game (computing machinery, that is) a long time. I run a pretty complete cycle of machines, from the original EeePC 701- 4G and HP2133 (both are 1G/4G) up through a fairly late--and powerful-- Acer and Lenovos--all Linux machines.
          I have have never, and I do mean never had a problem running a reasonable Linux (latest Mint, e.g.) on a machine with 2 GB of RAM and as little as 32 GB of mass storage (my Acer, with a triple-core 1.8 GHz CPU, for example; and no, I don't store 10,000 photos or 200 videos).

          So why, exactly, does a phone which runs the Linux operating system need to have 4 to 6 GB of RAM and 64 GB of SSD? I really do want to know as I am afraid that I am missing something very important; and that I may be in for a massive amount of disappointment if I expect this next generation of phones to be the "computer-in-my-pocket" which I have been waiting so long for.

          Thanks in advance for your advice and help.
          In order of decreasing importance:
          1. Because modern web is goddamn memory hungry.
          2. Because modern GNU/Linux desktop (the "glossy" "user-friendly" one, not talking about /r/unixporn level heavily customized setups here, they are irrelevant to "Linuxphones") is goddamn memory hungry.
          3. Because modern software development technologies/techniques in general are goddamn memory hungry.

          Note that I'm not saying that either of these things are good.
          Last edited by intelfx; 09-05-2019, 08:48 PM. Reason: revert, too wordy

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          • #45
            Originally posted by DMJC View Post

            ...The reason the phone needs more ram, at least in the case of Android (on the Atrix), when docked the phone would continue to run Android as a windowed application within a Full Linux Desktop (a hacked up Gnome 2 iirc). However with only 1gb of RAM when you opened desktop Firefox on the Atrix (which was the killer app, desktop firefox + flash so Youtube worked) after 1-2 browser tabs were opened the browser would run out of memory and crash...
            Thanks very much for the benefit of your experiences. Do you think that it is remotely possible that so much RAM is needed because of the use of Android, or is this a non-issue?
            Asked another way: do you think the need for RAM would be diminished if the phone was/is a true-Linux phone (as opposed to a Google Android-Linux phone)? [let's leave the 'true-Linux' vs. 'Android-Linux' issue alone, shall we?]

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            • #46
              Originally posted by retardxfce View Post
              Purisms target audience are gullible autists who will gobble up any supposed ""privacy"" snake oil.
              I am really disgusted by this tribalism here. Instead of being happy to have 2 better choices in the future and deciding for yourself that you don't buy Purism for some reasons, you have a wish to destroy/hate purism and not even that is enough you people even hate the people that have different opinion about that product, their customers.

              That has pathological dimensions, get to a shrink or get a live, something goes really wrong in your lives and it's not Purism.

              I could understand if somebody of you would be a baker and be angry about the process (if you ask them to get your money back because of the delay, do they give it back?) but most or all of you aren't bakers so there is absolutely zero reason to hate on them.

              But I forgot they dared to use Gnome and maybe even satanic Systemd, so they are your death enemy I understand, Maybe maybe they dare even to use btrfs. This unholy satanists....

              For fucks sake. they release much much more information create more transparency and you attack em for being not transparent...

              About Pinephone 1. they have to deliver their dates first... don't be to sure they have no delays. The Pinetab had also a delay as google just told me...
              2. can you shut down all spy capabilities of the device? Do you have all drivers? If not it does not even compete on the same market. I am happy if somebody has more detail.

              Of course for 600 dollar the librem phone is a phone for a specific demographic that has much money... I am not in that group but I don't have to hate on them just because I don't have enough money right now. It's pretty normal Airbags and other features like that also get first build into the expensive cars for rich people before they get slowly into the cheaper cars. And even if they would fail in the end... the software efforts they have done is great and will make some project successful in the future, so even if they file bankruptcy tomorrow that was a great project/success in my books.

              For me in reality neither the Pinephone nor the librem phone is very interesting for the sole fact that they have no hardware keyboards but again just it's not for me at the moment doesn't mean that all is centered around my needs. with such pioneer in prototyping of hardware and software it would be easier to create other projects that maybe have then some day included some keyboards...
              Last edited by blackiwid; 09-05-2019, 08:44 PM.

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              • #47
                Originally posted by intelfx View Post
                (the "glossy" "user-friendly" one, not talking about /r/unixporn level heavily customized setups here, they are irrelevant to "Linuxphones")
                Why? There were people phoning and messaging from emacs on their GNU/Linux phones in the past. That's still a real possibility :P

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                • #48
                  I heard that UBports in order to work decently needs at least 4GB of ram, while I heard from Joe Ressington of LNL that I tried a prototype of the PinePhone and it was quite buggy. While I am convinced the best strategy for delivering Linux Phone is to create cheapest phones and make the tinkering playing with them, I am not quite convinced about the expertise of the Pine64. I used to have a Rock64 board and the OS support was so badly that I ended to resell the board, hence I don't know how they will able to handle all the mobile specifics issues.

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                  • #49
                    Originally posted by wizard69 View Post
                    It it looks like they have fundamentally underestimated the required effort to get this device out the door.
                    device is too low target, they are developing os

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                    • #50
                      Originally posted by R41N3R View Post
                      So better release early
                      that's a software development principle, they can't update hardware over the air

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