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Ubuntu Core 18 Released By Canonical For IoT/Embedded With 10 Year Support Strategy

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  • Ubuntu Core 18 Released By Canonical For IoT/Embedded With 10 Year Support Strategy

    Phoronix: Ubuntu Core 18 Released By Canonical For IoT/Embedded With 10 Year Support Strategy

    Canonical this morning announced Ubuntu Core 18, its operating system based on Ubuntu 18.04 LTS and destined for IoT and embedded appliances and other low-power devices...

    http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...re-18-Released

  • #2
    A common model for Raspberry Pi development is to download and install .deb packages - people have written a bunch of software to support various peripherials.
    I think Ubuntu is making itself a disservice by forcing their Snap theology upon everyone.

    Although I'm using Ubuntu on almost all of my machines, I've tried Ubuntu Core on Raspberry once or twice but gave up. Other distros are just so much less hassle when it comes to installing third party software.

    Btw, I don't care if there's a workaround for installing apt-get somehow. On Debian or Raspbian, no workarounds are necessary, apt-get works out of the box.

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    • #3
      I like the concept of snaps.. but there is no GUI desktop environment at all? Not even a minimal one. Guess I will stick to Ubuntu Classic.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by pkese View Post
        A common model for Raspberry Pi development is to download and install .deb packages - people have written a bunch of software to support various peripherials.
        I think Ubuntu is making itself a disservice by forcing their Snap theology upon everyone.

        Although I'm using Ubuntu on almost all of my machines, I've tried Ubuntu Core on Raspberry once or twice but gave up. Other distros are just so much less hassle when it comes to installing third party software.

        Btw, I don't care if there's a workaround for installing apt-get somehow. On Debian or Raspbian, no workarounds are necessary, apt-get works out of the box.
        Or you could just use the normal Ubuntu image for Raspberry Pi, if that's what you wanted to do. It's not like Ubuntu Core is forced as you put it.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Zoll View Post
          I like the concept of snaps.. but there is no GUI desktop environment at all? Not even a minimal one. Guess I will stick to Ubuntu Classic.
          If you need a GUI desktop environment, then Ubuntu Core isn't ready for you.

          For a lot of IoT solutions Ubuntu Core doesn't need a GUI desktop. So, by default, it has none. The majority of Ubuntu Core installs have no graphics, those that do typically use the mir-kiosk snap to support a single application.

          That doesn't mean nobody has experimented with building a GUI shell on Ubuntu Core (I have), but the stricter security model presents significant challenges that need addressing before that can work well.

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          • #6
            What kind of idiot downloads a version of Ubuntu based on snaps and then complains that he can’t use apt?

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            • #7
              Originally posted by pkese View Post
              A common model for Raspberry Pi development is to download and install .deb packages - people have written a bunch of software to support various peripherials.
              I think Ubuntu is making itself a disservice by forcing their Snap theology upon everyone.
              .deb packages can and will break if not maintained as they rely on the rest of the system for dependencies, Snap packages won't as they don't. That's the main difference and selling point.

              In 4 years for example you will have to hack some deb packages to support the same peripherals in a modern LTS Ubuntu version, assuming that you can do it without sources.

              Although I'm using Ubuntu on almost all of my machines, I've tried Ubuntu Core on Raspberry once or twice but gave up. Other distros are just so much less hassle when it comes to installing third party software.
              Ubuntu Core is not supposed to install deb packages at all, so that's Working As Intended (tm) and You Are Using It Wrong (tm).

              Your actual issue is about availability of Snap packages, as I guess none is giving a flying fuck about Snap for raspi peripherals and keeps shipping deb packages only as it's simpler for them.
              If the sources of your third party software were shipping Snap packages you would not be complaining about "hassle to install third party software".
              Last edited by starshipeleven; 01-24-2019, 06:04 AM.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
                Ubuntu Core is not supposed to install deb packages at all, so that's Working As Intended (tm) and You Are Using It Wrong (tm).

                Your actual issue is about availability of Snap packages, as I guess none is giving a flying fuck about Snap for raspi peripherals and keeps shipping deb packages only as it's simpler for them.
                If the sources of your third party software were shipping Snap packages you would not be complaining about "hassle to install third party software".
                It's even simpler than that: `snapcraft` has all the tooling needed to pull 3rd party debs into a snap.

                As a developer, instead of listing the dependencies in your `debian/control` (as you would for creating a .deb) you list them in your `.snap/snapcraft.yaml`. There is no pain involved.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by AlanGriffiths View Post

                  It's even simpler than that: `snapcraft` has all the tooling needed to pull 3rd party debs into a snap.

                  As a developer, instead of listing the dependencies in your `debian/control` (as you would for creating a .deb) you list them in your `.snap/snapcraft.yaml`. There is no pain involved.
                  This assumes that the debs were actually made well to begin with. I've seen enough third party deb/rpm packages (so not just for Raspi) where they just "assume" that you have installed stuff at the right version as they "assume" that you will be using the default Ubuntu or raspbian or CentOS or whatever.

                  Basically the same approach they have with Windows.

                  Afaik you can't do the same in Snap (i.e. not specify any dependency) and assume that it will work in Ubuntu because you are using things present in default install.
                  Last edited by starshipeleven; 01-24-2019, 09:58 AM.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by starshipeleven View Post
                    This assumes that the debs were actually made well to begin with. I've seen enough third party deb/rpm packages (so not just for Raspi) where they just "assume" that you have installed stuff at the right version as they "assume" that you will be using the default Ubuntu or raspbian or CentOS or whatever.

                    Basically the same approach they have with Windows.

                    Afaik you can't do the same in Snap (i.e. not specify any dependency) and assume that it will work in Ubuntu because you are using things present in default install.
                    True, the snap developer will see the problem instead of it "working on my machine" (but not for users).

                    On the plus side, once the developer figures out (and lists) the missing dependencies the snap will also work for end users.

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